Midlife Butterfly: Healing, Empowerment & Self-Discovery

#14 - Sisterhood in Midlife: The Power of Female Connection

• Kena Siu • Episode 14

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Female friendship isn't just a luxury—it's essential for our growth, healing, and transformation at midlife. In this extraordinary gathering, Kena welcomes five remarkable women from her podcasting community for a powerful conversation about sisterhood and connection.

Through laughter, vulnerability, and profound insights, these women share their personal struggles with isolation, the competitive mindset many of us were conditioned to adopt, and the transformative power of finding your true tribe.

Key Points:

  • Female friendships often become harder to maintain in midlife due to family responsibilities, work demands, and shifting priorities
  • Many women experience a competitive mindset with other women that stems from patriarchal conditioning around scarcity
  • Research shows children benefit tremendously when they observe their mothers maintaining strong female friendships
  • Breaking the ice with potential new friends requires courage but can be as simple as offering a compliment or suggesting coffee
  • Female friendship "breakups" can be as painful as romantic ones but often signal necessary growth and evolution
  • The most powerful relationships come from showing up authentically rather than trying to be perfect
  • Midlife brings clarity about which relationships deserve a "seat at your table" and the confidence to release those that don't align
  • Younger generations of women model unapologetic self-celebration that many midlife women weren't encouraged to embrace


Reflection Questions:

  • Who are the women in your life that truly see and celebrate you? How can you nurture those connections?
  • What kind of sisterhood do you crave in this season of your life? What would it feel like to be fully supported?
  • What’s one step you can take today to call in your soul-aligned tribe—whether it’s joining a new community, reaching out to someone, or showing up more authentically?


Reach out and make the first move! Also join the Midlife Butterfly Community in Facebook.


Where can you find our guests?

Casey Taton


Dana Hunter Fradella


Jama Patel

You can find all the podcast details right here: http://midlifebutterfly.ca/podcast

Download the Midlife Butterfly Guide with 5 Radical Practices to Heal, Take Your Power Back & Rise

Follow Kena on Instagram: @kenasiu

Join the Midlife Butterfly Community: http://www.facebook.com/groups/midlifebutterfly

For Coaching, Courses & More Visit Kena's Website: http://midlifebutterfly.ca/workwithme

Request a Free Empowered Call with Kena if you're interested in working with her: https://midlifebutterfly.ca/empoweredsession


Song: Reborn by Alexander Nakarada

Kena Siu:

Midlife isn't a crisis. It's a calling, a wake-up call that shakes it up, strips away the old and invites you to something bigger. You feel it, don't you that deep knowing, that whisper that says there's more for me? I see you, beautiful. You spent years showing up for everyone else, being the good wife, the devoted mother, the responsible woman, and now it's your turn. It's time to reclaim your power, pleasure and purpose on your terms. I am Kena Siu, a self-love and empowerment guide, and I know this journey intimately Four weddings, three countries, two divorces and one funeral that changed everything. And through it all, I've learned that midlife isn't about fading away. It's about coming home to yourself, embodying your truth and expanding into your most radiant self. Welcome to Midlife Butterfly, where we have real, soul-shifting conversations about the messy, magical transformation of midlife. If you are navigating divorce, reinvention, a deep identity shift or a longing for more, this space is for you. We explore mindset shift, self-care rituals and embodiment practices that help you cultivate more joy, freedom and connection to create a life that feels damn good inside and out. You'll hear from inspiring guests, my own raw and real experiences and the lessons that come when you finally choose you. So if you're ready to stop surviving and start driving in full alignment. Welcome. Your next chapter starts now. This is Midlife Butterfly. Welcome, beautiful souls.

Kena Siu:

I am so excited for this episode because I have a powerhouse of women at Midlife Butterfly today, a group of five amazing and authentic women which I have the pleasure to become part of their lives and then are part of mine Thanks to podcasting. They are my pod sisters in the podcast program we're taking with Kathy Heller, and I can't wait for you to hear their stories, their wisdom, their joy and feel their energy. This is going to be amazing and we're going to dive into the topic of sisterhood in midlife and the power of female friendship. I will let each of you to introduce a little bit of you in a few sentences so people can start noticing your voices. So every time you do a share, they can recognize who you are. I'm just going to take your names in advance. So we have Tracy Hill, Jen Chambers, Casey Taton, Dana Hunter-Fradella and Jama Pantel. So thank you all for being here. Such a pleasure to have you here, sisters, and I can't wait to start this conversation okay, Tracy, you want to go first, sure?

Tracy Hill:

hello everyone. Good morning. My name is Tracy Hill and my company is a beautiful fix. I help women um, redefine and reconnect with what truly makes them feel alive, to stop relying on external answers and really to start to trust the answers within, and I do that through my podcast, retreats and tools like human design.

Kena Siu:

Beautiful. Thank you, Jen.

Jen Chambers:

Thank you so much for having me. My name is Jen Chambers and my podcast is called Resonate with Jen Chambers. I talk to people about their stories and, as a writer, I feel like people's stories are so, so important and it's my pleasure to be able to share other people's journeys. I often talk about people with chronic illness and that's my pleasure to be able to share other people's journeys. I often talk about people with chronic illness, and that's my specialty.

Kena Siu:

Thank you, Casey.

Casey Taton:

Hi, thanks for having me. I'm Casey Taton. I'm the host of the InnerSpark podcast and I also run an organization doing parties for kids in the hospital, so my mission is to bring smiles to any kid going through a battle in my hometown.

Kena Siu:

Thank you, dana.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

Thank you, Kena. I'm Dana Hunter-Fradella. I'm coming to you from New Orleans, louisiana the most magical place on earth and I am a transformational life and career coach for women, and my company is called Girls who Recover and I'm the host of the podcast Girls who Recover with Dana Hunter-Fradella, and my mission in life is to help women transform their biggest setbacks into their most gorgeous comebacks, so that we can live lives we absolutely love. Thank you so much for having me.

Kena Siu:

It's a pleasure, Jama.

Jama Pantel:

Hi y'all. Thank you so much for having me on here, keena, I really appreciate it. My name is Jama Pantel. I am in Austin, texas, and I am a portrait photographer, turned author, educator, run, influencer and now chasing my dreams and starting my podcast brand building living the whole picture. What I learned being in the studio and behind the camera all these years is that confidence that we lack or don't have in ourselves really comes out on screen, on film, on camera, and so my goal now is to help women find that confidence so it shows, so they shine in life, on camera, in business and in everything they do thank you, thank you, oh my god, this is fantastic.

Kena Siu:

Okay, so let's start even with some other questions in here. Uh, well, again, we have the pleasure to meet through the podcasting program that we are taking at this moment, but we know that there are many women, especially with midlife, who feel like friendships are harder to maintain. So why do you think that happens and how can we shift this narrative?

Tracy Hill:

So, Tracy, so this you know. When you reached out to me about this, I thought this is so timely because I am married, I have four sons, my dog is male, one of my cats is male. My whole life has become very testosterone filled and, um, I realized recently that I truly miss sisterhood, like I've been very neglectful, I think, in being a friend and recognizing how important that part of my life is, my life became very much about my family, and so I think that's one of the reasons. As you get to midlife and your life is about all the things.

Tracy Hill:

It's about work and keeping the household going and appointments and sometimes friends, at least for me, it started to almost feel like not optional, but it was just with my long laundry list, it was harder for me to reach out and check in on people. I'm a great texter, I will do it, I will check in by text, but physically making time to go see them was something that I just it. It failed to kind of the bottom of my list. So I think that's a big part of of why it becomes a little bit harder. We're more isolated, everyone's working from home, but I made it a priority recently to really start to work on making this a priority, recognizing how important sisterhood is in my life and it's made a big difference in the last year or so.

Kena Siu:

Yeah, it's about taking the step forward, so not waiting for everything to happen to us, right? So thank you for your share. Absolutely, Dana yeah.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

I relate so much so I could have basically said except for the boys, I have three girls. Same story, right. So we, I just think about my journey through sisterhood and friendships. I had close friendships when I was in high school and then I was in a sorority when I was in college and so that sort of automatically gives you a great group of friends. But something happened to me and there are two things I think that contributed to that is I got really serious about chasing my career, like trying to do really well in my career, and I just got super focused on that and prioritize that over other things. And I just got super focused on that and prioritize that over other things.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

And the other thing that is maybe unique about me, at least on this call, is that I had really terrible alcoholism, and so I and I don't think that the ism part is unique right, like everybody is recovering from something, but in that recovery or before the recovery process, it was a lot of isolating and a lot of separating and a lot of I'm different.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

Or at the end it was very much like hiding. And so even when I got sober and got in recovery, there's this narrative in my head that, like I'm different, I don't even know how to make friends, like, by the time I got sober I couldn't even like talk to women. It's advised in 12 step programs for you to get a mentor, and women need to work with women, and even for the first year I was like no, I can't, I don't even want to, and so that's been a whole different story and journey. But I think that there's something that happens where we feel separated or isolated and then we prioritize other things because it's a little easier than having intimate friendships and relationships, which I found are so important. And I love this group because we get to practice that right. We get to practice that right here, holding space for each other and learning what it means to be in, in sisterhood.

Kena Siu:

So yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing part of your story as well. Uh, Jama so much.

Jama Pantel:

Like Tracy said, I am surrounded by boys. In my personal life. I am the oldest daughter, two older brothers and we are all back to back in age and if you know anything about oldest daughter syndrome, they are the strongest man you'll ever meet.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

That's true.

Jama Pantel:

Yeah, and so there is a gap between me and my little sisters. So I grew up around my brothers. My parents will tell a story when I was a little girl, my brothers were running around with their shirts off and I was constantly taking my shirt off Like I was convinced why am I not a boy like that? And then I am the proud aunt to five boys. So my parents have nothing but or my parents have nothing but five grandsons. So I am surrounded by boys in my everyday life and so I always related to them.

Jama Pantel:

Where I was in sports, I played Little League Baseball. I was the only girl on the team. I did karate. Back in the day it was the Boys Club, not the Boys and Girls Club. I was the only girl in karate, so it was always easier for me to relate to boys on the sports front. As I got older and in my professional life, I worked, had a career in politics and Texas politics is also all around all about men and so that's when I started being drawn more to the female leaders and started creating friendships with strong female personalities, and that's where I finally started being at home with the female friendships. Um, but I recognize how busy. So many women are, and I think that's a huge part of why maintaining those friendships and I found that the best friendships with my female friends these days are the ones who aren't needy and we can go months without seeing each other and the second we're together. We're, like you know, kindergarten girls squealing best friends again oh yeah.

Kena Siu:

Well, for me also that's the best kind of friendships. You know you're not codependent, like whatever you're yeah, whatever you're available, then you're there and then it looks like you just see yesterday, even though sometimes passes like months or even years. Right, absolutely yeah, Casey.

Casey Taton:

I sorry that kind of caught me off guard. So I think that I faced a medical battle before I worked in the OR and I had a great group of women that I was surrounded by, and then, when I got sick, I think I felt like I lost all my friends and all my connections. And as I started to grow, it was like where lost all my friends and all my connections? And as I started to grow, it was like where do you meet friends? And I'm also. I don't have kids of my own, and so I think a lot of my friends had also had kids, and so it was just such a challenge to where do you go to meet friends, where do you go to meet people and to actually truly connect? And I am so grateful that now I'm in communities that have women in them and just the powerful, the power of the sisterhood in here, and it's just, it's just magical something. Yeah, it's, it's so good.

Kena Siu:

Jen, let's go with your chair.

Jen Chambers:

I feel like a combination of everyone, because I have three kids. I have two boys and one girl and we never thought we would have a girl. So it's interesting. So I grew up as one of two and then as a parent, my kids are a little bit older, so I had a very male atmosphere also and also I'm chronically ill. So I feel very much like Casey saying.

Jen Chambers:

There's a different kind of relationship you have with people when you're chronically ill. So I have the parent part and then also you just feel very isolated. I'm also physically isolated because I live in a small town. So as you grow out of the parenting role and your kids get older, you have a different relationship with the people in the community anyway, and then as you grow into the different stages of being chronically ill, you know you have to relate to people in a different way in that way. So, um, it's interesting and especially as a as a woman, there's a lot of competitiveness that, um, I feel like you know when you're an early you're like who's the best mom and who makes the best cupcakes and all that kind of stuff. I don't know if anybody else feels that, but oh my gosh, but I always felt like I was not measuring up. I think all parents feel like that. I think all parents feel like that.

Jen Chambers:

But so then trying to relate to those females that were very competitive, then it's interesting. As you grow older and grow more into yourself, you kind of leave all that behind. So at this point I feel like the best way for me to make parents as as an older, or make parents make friends as an older midlife woman is kind of finding people who have the same activities. So not only this wonderful podcasting group, but I found a lot of community within the writing community, which is interesting because that's also starts out competitive. But then you realize there's room for everyone and it's much the same with with other women. You know it's so nice when women make space for other people and we all can bring our own things to the table. I I've learned so much from all of these women, but certainly by trying to find spaces outside of my area that I can learn from. I feel like I've deemed a lot of friendships that way, if that makes sense.

Kena Siu:

Yeah, thank you all. Yeah, for me, I've been always kind of like a lone wolf, to tell you the truth. So of course it comes like that kind of isolation. But at the same time, since I've been living in different countries and in different cities throughout my life, like in the last 20 years, like I have very good friendships, but they are all over the world.

Kena Siu:

We sometimes I mean it's difficult. I mean I mean difficult in a way because it's different to have a friendship that you can see every online once in a Hill and I mean it's not the same kind of flow, if I can put it that way, because sometimes what we prefer just to be more in contact, in, like in presence of the person, that long distance. So that's why sometimes, like I don't keep connected to some of my friendships because of course, they have their own life and then we sometimes don't get to talk or to see for years. But the fun part that James was saying before is that then we get to see each other and it's like we're just catching up from yesterday. It doesn't matter you know what else like happened before is just, like you know, coming back that. But yeah, I mean it was interesting because, like during the pandemic is when I separated as well. So I was like, how am I going to do like new friendships too, because we're not able to see many people? And my ex-partner he actually recommended me to get into Bumble, so like they have a friendship area and I was like, ok, I'll do that.

Kena Siu:

And I did meet some women in there, and so that was, you know, a good point of you know if somebody else would like to try it out, why not? That there's also women who we want to have friendships and more. At this age, if we are still single, if we don't't have kids, and even if you ladies are married, you have kids, of course you want to keep growing, uh, you know, your, yeah, your connections, your network. So, yeah, thank you all for your shares. It's uh beautiful to see how the different perspectives, how it comes according to our life experiences, which is awesome. I would like to know let's go with these questions what role do female friendships play in a woman's personal growth, healing and empowerment, especially when we have a, you know, a big shake-up of life or life transition? Let's go, Jama.

Jama Pantel:

Yeah, I found that my female friends are my rocks. I can go to them about everything without judgment, and I know that's not the case with all women, right. So the ones that stick and the ones that stay and the ones that are your tribe you can go to them about anything and they will. They will go to war with you, um, and all those memes and all those things about besties and all the things they are so relatable to the people that you keep in your corner. Um, you can bounce ideas off of them for business, for life, for anything, and they will have your back 100%. Even if they know you're wrong, they will still support you and lovingly talk you back to the right. But they are your ride or die 100%. And that is the best part of the female friendship, in my opinion, is supporting you no matter what and all of your journeys and endeavors, and they will do that yeah, beautiful Casey I agree with what Jama said um, as we grow and change in life, um, our friends change and the people we connect with change.

Casey Taton:

And I think, um, this group of ladies right here is someone I turn to often and we've laughed together, we've cried together, we've held space for each other and I think, when you have a circle and I know we all have more than one circle of friends that they're going to hold you accountable, and they're not. I mean they're going to pick you up when you're down and they're going to hold you accountable, and they're not. I mean they're going to pick you up when you're down and they're going to encourage you and inspire you to keep going. And those are just, it's just so powerful when you can connect with a strong group of women like that, and I believe they're out there and you just have to find them. And as you keep growing and changing, they're going to change.

Kena Siu:

Some of them may change and others may just grow with you and just make your life that much better yeah, yeah, it's amazing and I'm so grateful for this group like we have so different personalities and backgrounds and stories and and life experiences that make it so rich, like this is a super wealthy group, I mean, with our different stories and the support that we get to receive and give at the same time when we gather in different ways, and how we are growing together. It's something so beautiful and so fulfilling to experience with all of you and, yeah, I'm so grateful that you are here, Jen.

Jen Chambers:

Let's go with your share one of the things that I think um, to kind of piggyback on what Jama and Casey said one of the things that is so special about this group in particular. But it makes a space for people to be vulnerable, and I think that as we grow, like Jima was saying, women have each other's backs in a different way, because we allow the women in our lives to be vulnerable and to share those kinds of hard things and, you know, talk about solutions and then talk about and just exist in a way that a lot of other spaces don't allow for. And that's why I think both it's harder to grow those friendships sometimes because you have to feel free to be vulnerable, but also that once you have them, they're so incredibly powerful yes, definitely.

Kena Siu:

Thank you um, Tracy okay.

Tracy Hill:

so Jen just mentioned being vulnerable. I'm going to go there, you're listening to the ladies share.

Kena Siu:

It's just us right, Nobody.

Tracy Hill:

I am having all these epiphanies. Just listening to this conversation, I'm realizing I think I'm intimidated by women and I have a fear, which I always have. I grew up super sensitive. You could hurt my feelings like that, look at me the wrong way and I'm like, oh my gosh, this person isn't. And I think women I was blessed, the women that I have in my life. They kind of fell into my lap. I didn't have to do anything. I they literally. I felt like the universe dropped them in my lap and they're the most important things to me. But if they didn't just drop in my lap, I don't even know how to like go up to a woman and be like hi, you want to be friends. I'm so afraid of that. No, or oh my God, like what? So I don't do it. And I've never exercised that muscle Again. I've always had them kind of naturally come into my life and I think I'm afraid of just rejection. And so with men, for some reason I feel very comfortable. My stuffed animals were all male. I feel very accepted. I can't explain it, um, and so I think that's why another reason why my life became very male dominated.

Tracy Hill:

And but a female friendship, there's nothing like it when I talk to my husband. I love him, he's great, but I drive him crazy because I want all the detail, I want. He tells me a story and I'm like, well did he say I don't know, I didn't ask that, well did they? He gets none of the detail. But when I call my girlfriends, oh my gosh, they're like three hour calls. I haven't called you in forever. And when I do call, we're on the phone all day because I need the details. And then they said what and what, and then we cry together and then we laugh and you know there's nothing like female companionship. But listening to you ladies, for the first time in my life I'm realizing I've got this fear of rejection. I'm a little intimidated. It's the sister wound. You hear people talk about the sister wound.

Kena Siu:

I have it oh, wow, yes, it does exist.

Kena Siu:

The thing is, I think because probably I don't know if it's the Patrick Hill or what, but we as women I mean it has changed through the years but before it was competition and I know still exists is just that women to be competitive against each other and that's why a lot of resistance and that's why, also, I believe, sometimes it's hard to make friendships when you are in that kind of energy.

Kena Siu:

But we have shifted and it's shifting and now it's about collaboration and it's a different, complete different approach on how to, yeah, to create that kind of connections and and probably that's why that fear of rejection comes from you, Tracy, because you're used to be by males and being accepted by them that by approaching women, that's probably kind of like the fear that you have because of that idea of competition. That's the way we grow as midlife women, with midlife women. We grow like this way. We grow as midlife women. We grow like this, but thankfully we are in a space now with in a completely different energy of collaboration and love and giving and receiving, and that it just shift everything else yes, and I'll say one more thing there's nothing more beautiful than watching women support each other, hands down.

Tracy Hill:

it is just to see women celebrate each other, hold each other up. There's something magical about it, so I love that we're moving into this era of sisterhood.

Kena Siu:

Yes, definitely Dana.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

I also am having some epiphanies, but I wanted to pull up this research on the power of female friendships on our kids and so because there's so much benefit for us. But I was blown away by what the research says about the impact on our kids. When women, when kids observe their moms having strong, positive friendships and a social circle, their cognitive development is above their peers who don't have that. They have higher self-esteem, they have better social skills and they feel safer and they feel connected and they feel a sense of belonging in the world.

Jen Chambers:

Wow.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

Like if that's not good enough reason to go out and recruit some new friends. And you know, like I don't want to live my life for my kids, but I do have three small kids and I feel like how we're always asking like how can we create safety and love and connection for our kids? And it's the craziest thing, it's like we take care of ourselves. How do we do that? We link up with other women and the epiphany that I had, too, is I was competitive and still like have to check myself because I'm like no, we can't be friends because we're fighting for the same GPA, we're fighting for the same seat in grad school, we're fighting for the same. You know, it's like that is the patriarchy Kena, this sense of scarcity, like there isn't plenty for everyone. There's more than enough.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

That's a lie of the patriarchy that there's not enough, yes, and so it's helped me to really break out of this. Where did I get that from? Like, where do we all get our things from? From our moms, so that's the epiphany is like my mom is a strong, batty woman and she was a trailblazer in her career and that did not leave time for intimate friendships, and so we do what we see.

Kena Siu:

Yeah.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

Unless we are ready to do a generational interruption and that's what I think we're here to do right Interrupt the generational patterns of women competing against women.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

For what right, what for men, for careers, for the things that like. By the way, when we get them, we're like what? Why am I alone? Why is this not making me happy? Why am I alone? Why is this not making me happy? And so the power of female friendships. It goes way beyond us, although, but like, let's bring it back to the actual table. That's one thing I feel really proud of is once I was able to release this narrative that I'm separate and I'm different, and if I and there's a competition there, here's a secret. There's no competition, but it still comes up for me too, even in the podcasting program.

Jen Chambers:

I'm like well, why does she have?

Dana Hunter Fradella:

a billion downloads. And I only have you know. It's like oh, hush patriarchy, step aside.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

Yes, and then working against that. Where I reach out to that person, I'm like that's amazing, I'm celebrating you and meaning it really deeply. And the other thing I just want to say I messaged this group about 30 minutes before we signed on and I was like, hey, I am having a meltdown, I will be there Right, and just being open about what is actually real. I've cried on the calls, I've tried to do my best to tell the truth and I think that not that you've gotten to the question about, like, how do you make friends? Well, you go first and you show up all of you as an invitation for the woman who's ready to do that, to do the same thing, the same thing. So I have lots of good friends and I probably have like five or six really intimate friendships that I do keep up with systemically. They're on the calendar. We have friend dates either every week or every month.

Kena Siu:

Thank you, dana Jama. You want to share something else? Go ahead.

Jama Pantel:

Yeah, I want to go back and touch on what chasey said. In that fear of rejection, I have actually been broken up with by females, um, and I know a lot of friendships change and grow and, you know, die off. But actually having somebody tell you I don't want to be your friend anymore for x. I've had that happen twice in my life and it was the hardest thing ever and I still think about both of them and one was way more recent, in midlife, in the over 45 space, and it's ridiculously interesting and hard.

Jama Pantel:

But again, you do the inner work and you recognize that it isn't you, the issues and stuff like that, and it's isn't you, um, the the issues and stuff like that, and it's. You still think about it, but you recognize that it isn't you and so the fear. I mean I haven't stopped making female friends because of it, but I I get the rejection part because it's hard and you want to as women. I think it's like what did I do? What did I do? What did I do? But you have to recognize it's not what you did and so I can't think of any woman you walking up to and whatever be like no, I don't want to be your friend. I'd be like, yeah, let's go get some coffee or matcha.

Kena Siu:

Yeah, and you know it happened to me.

Jen Chambers:

That there exists.

Kena Siu:

Yeah, yeah, one of my best friends, she broke up with me like in the middle of I was divorcing and still grieving my father and uh, yeah, and she didn't even have you know the overage to tell me on the face, like she literally wrote a freaking long email and she was kind of like I know, no, like uh, uh, I don't know anyway. So it was like, in a few words, she, I mean, she said like uh, yeah, that I was being very condescending. I can't remember, uh, but my point is, yeah, it's heartbreaking because we were very close, that we were see, I mean, we were working together and we will see each other, like, even though I was married at the time, like two, three times a week, we will have, you know, activities and it's still, and things like that. And then suddenly it's like you know, and the thing is, I, what I understood is like she broke up with me because, like I was going to a green process, I was shifting my life so much. That is just like I guess she couldn't handle it, if I can put it that way, because that's the thing when we grow and evolve and change so fast, and I don't know, I don't think it was envy or anything, it was just that we didn't align anymore. But with what I was happening and yeah, it hurt like shit, like it was very bad.

Kena Siu:

And I remember once in in a call with I was doing a another taking a program at that time and this lady at 70 she was like no worries, I just broke up with a friend like no time ago. I was like okay, so this is gonna keep happening, right, and that's the cool part is that some people goes, or we had them or whatever. Some other people are going to come that are aligned with us. Let's grieve, because we have to grieve those relationships, but at the same time just keep going and be open to receive more. Dana, what else do you want to share?

Dana Hunter Fradella:

It's almost essentially what you just said. Like the beautiful part about midlife is that I give many less F's about most things, and so it's given me what's left is like crystal clarity around the things that are important to me, and and now that I have that, I have looked at some of the friendships and just said, like this is not a match, it's just not. You know, like my friend for we were friends for 20 years but like she has a problem that she's not addressing and so it's hard for us to be together because it's just like I can't, like I can't be around that.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

So James, clear in Atomic Habits, he was asked what the most important habit was and he said it's the people you surround yourself with. And I mentioned that because in midlife we are all expanding, we are evolving and we are dropping the things that do not matter. And that's not to say that our friendships don't matter, but what I'm saying is we get so clear on what does matter that we're willing to let go of the things that aren't a match. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's how, like if you've ever been broken up with, either by a friend or by you know it's like friendships are a little different than dating, but not really Like being broken up with sucks. And it's a gift to be able to evolve and expand out of a relationship that's not aligned with who you are becoming. I love this idea of midlife butterfly because you know a monarch is not playing with the worms.

Kena Siu:

True, Definitely butterfly, because you know a monarch is not playing with the worms Girl, definitely.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

She's out there with other butterflies. Yeah, she's not playing with caterpillars anymore, she's playing with butterflies. And so my point is is that I'm always I'm not looking like who do I need to break up with today, but it's like who am I becoming and is this relationship still a match? Because the last thing I'll say is your girl only has so much time, like we have big, beautiful lives, and so there are only so many seats at the table. And so women I coach and women I mentor. I'm like why are you giving this person a seat at your table? There are only so many seats. You need to excuse them and make room for who you want to attract in your life, who's going to mirror the energy that you have. And so, again, a call to elevate yourself, work on yourself, pour into yourself, and then we start to attract the women who, like we have together, we attracted each other.

Kena Siu:

Yes, we did.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

Because you're all amazing. Okay, that's me, that's, that's it Really quickly, if I can.

Tracy Hill:

Just it makes me think of this analogy. It makes me think of the analogy I don't know if you guys have heard of this of a train. Life is like a train and people are going to get on and hop off as they need to, and to me I love that because there's not a lot of efforting, there's not a lot of figuring it out. You just your train of life is going and then people are going to hop on and when they hop off, you know that their time, you know, was met, and now they're moving on and you can too. So it's a different way of thinking about what we just said. All the breakups we talked about, you know their purpose in your life was, you know, finished and complete, and now you're on to the next thing.

Kena Siu:

Yeah, thank you for mentioning that, and that's true, because that's the thing. Sometimes, yeah, they are long term friendships, but that's sometimes. It could be a person that we just meet for a few minutes and it can change your life. It doesn't have to be that long relationship, because I mean. Therefore, they say sometimes it's for seasons, for something that we need to learn at that very moment. So just cherish that moment and the you know, the learning lessons and whatever you get from there, and also they also got something from us. That's definitely right.

Kena Siu:

But I guess it's also about that letting go of that codependency with our relationships, because, as Dana was saying, that we go and it's okay, the flow and all that, and oh, I got lost in red, look. So my, my point is like going back to choosing the kind of relationship that we want at this moment and letting go of those ones that don't serve us anymore, because sometimes we are fearful of saying, but how am I gonna make new friendships right and more again if we come into midlife? It's like I'm not gonna find more friendships so and it's like, no, I'm in this friendship, even though it's me and the one chasing them, and so stop that, we're not from that anymore. It has to be a reciprocal. It needs to be nourishing both sides. It has to. You know, it's a relationship, it's not a, you know, a one solo person like just streaming from there. So, yeah, Jen, what do you have to share?

Jen Chambers:

well, another analogy. My husband said this to me when I've had friends wake up with me and sometimes he told me that people are in your lives, they're a chapter, they're not the whole book Exactly, and that really helped me kind of get perspective on it. Like you're saying, you know you have something to learn from people, even when there's a breakup, and they have something to learn from you, and it helped me just kind of be more at peace with it that you know it isn't necessarily me. Maybe they were done with my chapter and I need to be done with theirs. That's the hardest thing to accept. But but, like Dana was saying, you get to, you get to choose that. And interestingly so the other thing I was thinking about.

Jen Chambers:

This kind of goes back to something Tracy was saying. I don't have people come up to me who wanted to meet me and say, hey, you know, it was really funny, really funny. The woman was. It was a woman. She was like hey, I really like um, I love the way that you dress. So I just thought that we should be friends and I admired her guts so much to come up to someone that you don't know these, you know, you've seen them across the soccer field and just to walk up to you and and first of all, it was very nice to be flattered, but you know that that's one of the hardest things is finding a way to break the ice with new people and, yes, and you know, become friends like it's okay to just call my people and talk to them. That was revolutionary to me.

Kena Siu:

That's beautiful uh, yeah, so about breaking the ice, because I know there's a lot of women who who feel alone right now. So what would be some of your tactics to breaking the ice? Like this is like this is wonderful approach. Do you have any ideas how you approach?

Dana Hunter Fradella:

uh, dana, it is so okay. So this is goes back to I'm in my midlife, so I don't care, I really don't care, I just don't. So I will go up to. I'll just tell you what I did. A couple weeks ago there was a woman who spoke at my meeting and I went up to her and I was like why have we never met and why aren't we already best friends? Can I please have your number and invite you to coffee? And she was like absolutely.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

And so and then here's the, here's the kicker. I called, I texted her and I said what you got for coffee, and so we put, we got it on the books and so and I will do, I'll out myself too. It's like I am very selective about who. I continue to pursue relationship. I think I explained that, and so I have. I've had a bunch of coffee dates and after the first one I'm like, yeah, I'm good, You're amazing, Like enjoy your life, and then they can get a second coffee day, and then they can get a second coffee day if it feels like it's. You know, there's momentum and the key is keep going, Keep inviting, Keep being awkward Like I love that, Jen, the girl's like you have great clothes, let's be friends. And then the next step is yes, here's my number. When are you available in the next two weeks to get coffee? And if you're virtual, when are you available in the next two weeks to drink coffee on the Zoom and make avatars and funny faces?

Kena Siu:

I love that yes, yes, yes.

Jama Pantel:

Yeah, and I do the same thing. I walk up to women often and admire what they're wearing. But I'm also in a special situation where I get to hear a lot of women speak and I will absolutely go up to them and be like, hey, I love what you said about XYZ or whatever and one of my best running friends. Actually, she had just got done doing something. This is over 10 years ago now and we've traveled together, we've run together, we've done a lot together. But I walked right up to her and said, hey, I heard that you just finished this race. I was like that's amazing, tell me about your experience. And we've been, you know, best, best of running friends for the past 12 years now. Um, so, just, yeah, find something you like, walk up to them and tell them, I mean that that's, that's what it is yeah, I think it's also this approach of being open to it.

Kena Siu:

Like the other day I went to the ATM, which didn't work, but it was good, because then I met this lady and this young woman and then we just keep walking to the other ATM and then at the end we end up watching the sun sunset and then had dinner and a drink and we spent like three hours together and it was just fantastic. I don't know if we're gonna keep in contact or not, but just that connection for a few hours it was so nourishing and so great. So, again, it's also a bit about not attaching to it and and, uh, yeah, grow the relationship. If it feels like you know, if there's more in there I didn't know just let it go and enjoy that present moment. In that Casey, what do you want to share?

Casey Taton:

I'm gonna say this. I don't know why it's easier for me. I mean, I talk to a lot of people every day in the community and what I do, um, it feels like it's less pressure. I went out of town, I went on a ski trip and I met this lady on the slopes and I think we were both. So when you're trying something new, there's like you're in this state of like you don't know what you're doing, you don't care, like, I'm just here to try and do it, and so you're not worried about, like, what everybody else is doing, you're just like I'm here to do and have fun. And so I met this lady on the ski slopes and she was there by herself and we were taking a lesson together and we got to bond all morning. And then she was like well, it's time for me to go. You know. She's like oh, you're going to go with your boyfriend and go ski. And I'm like no, come with us.

Casey Taton:

And this lady, she came and had lunch with us and we skied in the afternoon together. And the one thing I didn't do is I didn't say when we left, my boyfriend goes. You took a picture with her, but you didn't get her phone number and I said I know what was I thinking? I said it was just so. We had so much fun and so maybe it's just putting yourself out there in a community that you like and then you're surrounding yourself with it, but just letting it happen. I didn't go out that day saying I'm going to meet a new friend today, but I also wasn't against it. I was like I'm going to go ski down this mountain.

Tracy Hill:

So I think just being open to it is such a big thing. Yes, definitely, Tracy. Yeah, so, um, a couple of things. I say go on a retreat. I think it's one of the best ways to connect with like-minded, beautiful souls. I went on a retreat last year and these are like people that I feel like are family at this point. When you go through a shared experience like that, it's just so easy to bond and get through all the superficial crap and just get straight to that bond. I actually hosted my first retreat in January and honestly, I needed it. You know it was a sisterhood retreat and I felt again so separate and realizing how much I need female companionship. So I hosted a retreat and, you know, brought them in. But I was thinking of two examples, just listening to you guys talk about how you saw someone and you went up to them like man, I need to grow a pair, because I'm thinking of two instances where I think a lot of times it's being kind, just simply being kind. I think as women we don't always I don't know if we again the whole competitive thing.

Tracy Hill:

I remember an instance a few years ago at my son's school. There was we thought it was a school shooting literally every parent's worst nightmare. I'm at home, my husband comes down. I was working out in our gym and my husband comes down and says, Tracy, there's a lockdown at the high school. And they think that there's, you know, been a school shooting. I just I started running and my husband's like what are you doing? You can't go to the school. I'm like, oh, watch me, grab my keys. I don't know what I was going to do, but I was going to be there. I'm crying the whole way. There are helicopters flying over us, police, swat teams. I am just and I get there. And all these parents had the same idea. We and all these parents had the same idea. We're all just going to this. It was the worst nightmare you can imagine. It turned out to be it wasn't a school shooting. Someone thought they heard something and so luckily it wasn't what we thought it was.

Tracy Hill:

But the point is, all of these parents were going through the same thing and I'm sitting down on the lawn outside and this woman we just kind of started talking and oh, she came up to me and she simply handed me a water bottle. And I was like what's happening? And I realized she was just handing me a water bottle. I don't know why. It was the kindest gesture at a moment where I was at my lowest and felt just terrified to have another human being go out of their way, who did not know me, knowing what she's going through, and to also offer me. It has stayed with me. I didn't ask her to go to coffee, I should have. I let that go, but I will never forget that moment.

Tracy Hill:

And then one other story was I was at an Esther Hicks seminar. I don't know if you guys are Esther Hicks, but I love her, yes. And there was this woman sitting next to me and I just fell in love with this woman. She was gorgeous, she was beautiful, her energy was amazing. The whole three hours we sat next to each other and at the end I wanted so badly to do what you guys did, just exchange numbers, and I was like that fear of rejection, of her saying no, I didn't. And again she stayed on my mind. But so anyway, I just wanted to share those stories.

Kena Siu:

Thank you. Yeah, just the kindness of people. Thank you, kindness.

Jama Pantel:

Jama, I'm going to say if the phone number feels too intimidating, social media. I've been thinking about that on social media, which is kind of what I, how I started and stuff like that. So follow them on social media and get to know them and that builds like that, like you, then you feel like you know them a little bit more. If so, if that phone number is a little too much like, hey, are you on social media, I'd love to follow you. It's a little safer right yeah yeah so.

Jama Pantel:

So when you said that, I was like you know what, start, start small, like you know and I was the biggest introvert ever and it's to me I do things in like baby steps and so start, start small, and start by following them on social media and then move up from there. So that's just a tip and idea of something I thought when you said that.

Tracy Hill:

Thank you.

Kena Siu:

It's a great idea. You have more ideas, Jen?

Jen Chambers:

What do you want to say? You guys are really inspiring me. It's funny. It's so funny. I mean, things aren't coincidental, right? They are not. No, I was in a class yesterday with a woman who I've admired for a really, really long time. She's this very smart, funny, very popular writer. She's written for the New York Times and Writer's Digest. And it's funny because we've been Facebook friends, because we know people in common for probably three years and I've never met her in person. But yesterday she had a class in my area and I went to it, I took it and afterward she she was like well, first of all, when I got there, she's like wait, you're Jen Chambers, I think we're Facebook friends. And so now I am really inspired because of you guys to actually follow up. I'm gonna text her because she wanted me to text her afterwards. And I was like, well, she doesn't really want that, but she does and I'm willing to do it. So, thank you, you guys inspired me.

Kena Siu:

Let's go for it. They know.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

Something that just the theme that I'm picking up on here is that in order to at least like, how do we make friends yes, bumble, some friends of mine have had success on that and we got to get out and put ourselves around women. And I was just thinking about, like, I go to two women's groups a week and I went to a women's leadership conference on Friday and I'm in a podcast, mistress Mind, and I am in Kathy Heller's community, and so we put ourselves around women and I think that, both with COVID, but also the patriarchy, let's be real that's not a thing that is valued or celebrated and we're really stepping, probably, into an area that feels uncomfortable but is so worth it.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

And it's been helpful, too, to have my own business, cause like part of the way that I create space for gorgeous, magnetic, powerful women as clients is I go put myself around gorgeous, magnetic, powerful women and I'm like, really are you? They're looking for a coach, I got you, but so we can sense the energy and you know, the more we can put ourselves around powerful, empowered, beautiful also imperfect and not lying about it Women, the more likely we are to find the women who get seats at the table and feel really good about that yeah, and that's the cool part that, as you said, with you are in all these circles and programs and stuff, and we are here now.

Kena Siu:

that that's how we can also make these kind of friendships and you know that we that align with us what we are doing. At the same time, because of this kind of this specific group with, like, we keep growing, we keep evolving, so it's part also of our self-growth because we, with our stories, just by sharing at this very moment, like we're still like learning and getting new ideas and feeling inspired. So that's really the power of sisterhood. So, thank you, thank you so much. Let's go for the last question of today. Well, one before the last what are some of the most powerful lessons you've learned from women in your life?

Tracy Hill:

you've learned from women in your life?

Dana Hunter Fradella:

Wow, I'm not going to raise my hand, I'm just going to go. This has been so recently and it is the most powerful thing. It's when women show up as exactly who they are. We become lighthouses for every woman within our orbit. So I recorded a podcast this week. I'm pretty sure I cried a couple times on the podcast and I was like whatever it was.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

And I have gotten more positive feedback from that episode than any of the ones that I planned in advance and put lipstick on for. And it's like the most powerful thing that I have learned from another woman is it's okay to show up as exactly who you are. You don't need to be perfect. You can give all that up. That's a narrative of the patriarchy and it's a lie. All that up, that's a narrative of the patriarchy and it's a lie. So let's set it aside and show up messy and show up crying and show up powerful. And show up is exactly the way we are, because that creates space for the next woman to do the same right Like. My favorite thing about this work is we're all doing podcasts and nobody's trying to be perfect.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

No, it's just the message that's so empowering for me, yes, and if we, if and that's the thing that I'm taking is like I don't have to do my life perfect, I don't have to be the cupcake mom, I don't have to be the fastest runner, I don't have to have the most popular podcast, like. I just have to show up as exactly who I am, even if I don't know most of the time, and let that be okay.

Kena Siu:

Yeah, because it's okay. It is okay, that's what we were just saying before Like we came a bit late today, everyone, you know, had setbacks, whatever. And then here we are. It's just taking our space and then having the vulnerability to share that also and to say, you know what, just allow me, because I need a little bit more space of time. It's just so valuable. And then at the end we're just here and this sharing from the heart and that was matter, it's perfection.

Casey Taton:

it just goes to the trash Casey they kind of said exactly what I was going to say is when we show up as our authentic self oh Casey, to do it perfect and when I let go of those things that the people that I have met and am closest to is. It's not really when I'm normally dressed the best, it's when I'm out doing something fun and something silly and just letting go and just being myself, um, that I connect with somebody on a deeper level and I I think that every single one of us in here is a reminder of just showing up as them and who they are that day. And it may not be whether we're crying, whether we're laughing, just show up as you are that day and that's one of the most powerful things I think.

Kena Siu:

Yes, it is Tracy.

Tracy Hill:

Yeah, can we just all agree that being perfect is the most boring, uninteresting thing ever? Yes, I'm just Dana. In case of what you guys both said, I'm just realizing the women that I follow online that I really resonate. I mean, kathy Heller is a perfect example. When they show up exactly as they are, it is the most beautiful, empowering thing ever. It's so much more interesting than someone trying to be perfect. So, anyway, that was just a sidebar, but I was going to say I think I've learned from women how strong we are and how resilient and how layered and how beautiful the layers are. You can have a woman who is incredibly powerful and then she's in tears the next moment and then she gets right back up and just listening to your stories.

Tracy Hill:

I've had the ability to listen to all of your podcasts blown away. I mean, I've been spending months with you guys and had no idea about your stories, your backstories. Months with you guys and had no idea about your stories, your backstories. Many of them would have broken me over and over again and I would have had no idea, because of the beautiful souls that you are, what you've been through. But that's what makes us, it's those battles that turn us into the beautiful souls that we are.

Tracy Hill:

But the last thing I would say, I think what I've learned the most is from the younger generation. So many times we're harder on the younger generation, like, oh my God, this younger generation. I've always marveled, and maybe because I have so many Hill my four sons that I've learned to embrace it. But when I was in corporate America, everyone got upset with the younger generation because they came in and they asked for the promotion right away and they weren't going to work their lives away and they wanted to go on vacation all the time. And who do they think? And I thought good for them. Good for them, we're upset with them because they're doing what we weren't brave enough to do.

Casey Taton:

They're all telling each other their salaries.

Tracy Hill:

As a hiring manager, there was a time where there was a whole discussion about you guys should not be sharing what you make. And I was like, absolutely you should not, of course. And so I went to my team and was like, guys, don't do it, do not share, blah, blah, blah. And someone in my group was like that doesn't feel good. And I was like wait what? And they're like that doesn't feel good. Why can't we share what we make? And I just had to stop and think about it, like, yeah, you guys have a point. Instead of me staying on my no, you're not supposed to. I had to ask why, yeah, why can't you? And so I agree with that and, not wanting to slave their lives away, and they want to get in and be the CEO right away. Good for them. It doesn't mean that they're going to be, but why not want that?

Tracy Hill:

But the thing is watching the younger generation of women celebrate themselves, lizzo saying I am beautiful, exactly how I am, and with all the haters saying she needs to go sit down. She's not shaped like her traditional model and she's like it drives her even further. Watching women say I'm beautiful, I'm good at this, I'm like I could have never. I always had to downplay and dim that light to be liked, or so I thought. But to see these women, I just think it's powerful and it's beautiful, and I've never looked at anyone celebrating themselves and thought less of them, and it endears me to them even more, so that I think is the biggest lesson. I've never looked at anyone celebrating themselves and thought less of them, and it endears me to them even more, so that I think is the biggest lesson I've learned from the younger generation.

Kena Siu:

Beautiful, and thank you for bringing that out. Yeah, that's true. We didn't dare at that point because it was different. I mean, things keep shifting, so hell yeah, oh beautiful.

Jama Pantel:

Jama. Yeah, Tracy totally stole my thunder on that one. I was gonna say the how resilient women are, um, you know, everybody has a story I've, you know, I learned this lesson at a really young age and I'm glad I did um but how resilient and powerful they are and how they continue to show up with grace, and so that's the thing. I have seen people who have had bad things happen to it and it eats them up and they turn into, you know, awful individuals because they aren't able to process it, but the majority of the people, of the women, continue to show up with grace and that, to me, is one of the most inspiring things. Like you can be bitter, you can be angry or you can continue to show up with grace, and that, to me, is one of the most inspiring things. Like you can be bitter, you can be angry or you can continue to show up with grace, and the resilience and showing up with grace is one of the the biggest lessons that I've learned um and how to do it thank you.

Kena Siu:

Thank you, yes, Jen.

Jen Chambers:

Jen, I'm on to what Tracy said also. I think the biggest lesson I've learned from the women in my life and the women that I admire is that they own it. You know, women that own their power, women that believe their own press, you know, I think that's the most incredibly inspiring thing and I aspire to that very much so. But seeing women be themselves and not apologetic, just yep, this is who I am and this is what we're doing, and I just I've learned so much from that. I feel like I absorb a little bit more of that when I see another woman do that. If that makes sense, I just want, I want that so much for everyone. But so I find so much strength in seeing other people own their own power and be themselves, and the women who do that are just so incredibly inspiring yes, they are, and you are all inspiring and, yeah, showing is there.

Kena Siu:

Like I run out of words. I'm just so, so grateful that you ladies are here with me at this very moment and sharing this beautiful episode with me and your experiences and the way you see life and the way you experience life and, as somebody already said, our podcasts, our stories, are so freaking, powerful and so beautiful and, despite whatever pain or things we have been going through, we have that resilience and that conviction and devotion to keep going, to build our dreams, to have better lives, to feel good and and, yeah, I'm just super grateful for you to be part of my life. And I want to close with a little question that I ask all of my guests, which is what's the pleasure that you enjoy the most? Whoever wants to go first, just go.

Jama Pantel:

Okay, my greatest pleasure in life, and something I've been doing for a long time, is running. Like I am a better, happier person after a run, after I'm able to get in my run. I actually structured my business around being able to run and all the things like that was a huge goal when I started years ago. I didn't want to be the busiest photographer out there. I wanted to be able to do what I loved first, and I love photography. I'm not saying that I don't love photography. I wanted it on my terms and I wanted to be able to do what I loved first, and I love photography. I'm not saying that I don't love photography. I wanted it on my terms and I wanted to be able to run and get my workouts in. That is what like drives me is to be able to get that in Movement I feel like is a blessing in my life. Thank you, jayla.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

Massage hands down massage.

Kena Siu:

Massage okay, it's.

Dana Hunter Fradella:

So enjoyable. I do not even see it as a um a splurge. I see it as a gift to my soul and my body and my mind. And a 90 minute massage will change the next two weeks, so I try to get them biweekly Nice.

Kena Siu:

Yes, yeah, nice yes.

Jen Chambers:

For me it's kind of a daily thing. I like to play music, so I play the Uplayly. I was actually trained to sing professional opera, but I don't do that anymore. But so I play music and if I can play music every day I feel whole. So that's a kind of a I just do it for myself. But that's the one thing that I tried to make a list one time of all the things I need to feel whole and it was exercise and playing music were the top of the list. So for me those are my, my pleasures.

Tracy Hill:

This is gonna sound like a shameful plug and I apologize, but the reason why my business is called A Beautiful Fix is because I asked myself that exact question what is it that lights me up? And it's everything that you guys answered. It's beautiful things and moments and experiences, like this panel right here. But it's the massages, it's music. I mean music can take me to a whole nother plane instantly. It's nature, it's going on walks. So I know it's a little bit of cheating saying all the things, but it's laughter. It's just beautiful moments, beautiful things, things that just elevate you, your state, instantly instantly.

Casey Taton:

Yeah, I agree with you, Tracy. I don't know that. I can just say one thing, I think it's just. I mean, I love the lake. It lights me up. I love working out, but I also love deep connection and just being present and living, finding those what lights other people up, lights me up.

Jen Chambers:

When I see them, it just lights my soul on fire and I get so excited.

Tracy Hill:

Yeah, can I just say really quickly I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Casey, that is so true about you. You are like a professional cheerleader. You get so excited and celebrate people when we are in meetings, you are in the chat, just you're great, you're all I mean. You're just naturally one of the most beautiful. I would keep saying this word beautiful souls but really I just wanted to say that when you said that. That is so true, that is so true.

Jen Chambers:

Yeah, and.

Jama Pantel:

I don't think that absolutely.

Kena Siu:

Yeah, and I think the more present we get to be, the more we actually get to enjoy whatever we are doing, and it can be a pleasure every time. Right, as you say, Casey, that just this connection, this, this panel of you know, great conversation, such a fucking pleasure. Yeah, I mean, we can have pleasure of almost everything if we should. We should see it that way. So, yeah, and closing with that pleasure of this conversation, of this panel, uh pod, thank you so much for your presence, thank you so much for being in my life, thank you so much for your energy, your love, your radiance and, yes, thank you for being in Midlife Butterfly. Thank you for tuning into Midlife Butterfly.

Kena Siu:

If this episode lead a spark in you, hit that subscribe or follow button on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you love to listen so you'll never miss the magic. If you're feeling generous, drop a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps this empowering content reach more souls ready to transform their lives. And don't forget to take a photo of you while listening and share it on your socials. You can tag me at Ken as you, so I can celebrate you and your expansion. Until next time, keep spreading those wings and living in joy, growth and pleasure.

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