#80 - Reclaim Your Worth: Ending Self-Abandonment to Remember Your Midlife Identity

Where in your life are you still living from the neck up — and what happens if you let your body answer instead?

In this episode I sat down with Kamesha and Denise over at Wisdom in Bloom, and we went deep on what it actually costs to reclaim your worth and end self-abandonment — the friendships that fall away, the body's quiet warnings, the grief nobody tells you to make room for.

🦋 You'll Discover:

• Why unlearning can be more powerful than learning
• Releasing limiting beliefs and outdated expectations
• Letting go of who you thought you had to be
• Embracing transformation and personal freedom in midlife

✨ Coming Home Question: 

Where in your life are you still living from the neck up — and what happens if you let your body answer instead?

👉🏼 Check the Wisdom in Bloom Podcast 

With Kamesha & Denise: www.wisdominbloom.net

💜 I created Coming HOME for the woman who has done everything right and still feels something is missing. It's free, it's private, and it might be the most important thing you listen to this year — sign up here!

🦋 Midlife Butterfly is a podcast for high-achieving midlife women navigating emotional exhaustion, people pleasing, self-abandonment, nervous system healing, identity shifts, and midlife awakening. Hosted by Kena Siu, Identity & Embodiment Guide.

Instagram: @midlifebutterfly
Website: midlifebutterfly.ca

Music: Back Home by Alex Productions and  Reborn by Alexander Nakarada

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kena Siu: Hey, beauty. This episode is all about letting go of who you thought you had to be. I sat down with Kamesha and Denise over at Wisdom in Bloom podcast, and it went deep. We talk about unlearning everything that no longer fits, the people-pleasing, the perfectionism, the old identity, so you can finally make room for your next bloom.

[00:00:25] Welcome to Midlife Butterfly, for the high-achieving woman in midlife who has spent years showing up for everyone except herself. This podcast is where emotional exhaustion meets nervous system healing and where people-pleasing gives way to self-remembrance. I am Kena Siu, identity and embodiment guide.

[00:00:50] Because I know you are doing the inner work, it's time to settle that wisdom from your mind into your body so you can feel alive [00:01:00] again.

[00:01:04] In this episode, we explore:

[00:01:08] Why unlearning can be more powerful than learning, releasing limiting beliefs and outdated expectations, letting go of who you thought you had to be, and embracing transformation and personal freedom in midlife.

[00:01:25]

[00:01:29] Intro & Welcome

[00:01:29] Kena Siu: Welcome back, y'all. Welcome back to the Wisdom in Bloom, where we believe that sometimes the greatest growth in midlife doesn't come from learning something new. It comes from having the courage to let something go. From the time we were little girls, we've been taught who to be, how to act, what success should look like, and what others expect from us.

[00:01:51] But what if some of those lessons no longer serve us? They don't serve the woman that we're becoming. What if blooming in [00:02:00] midlife isn't about adding more, but it's about unlearning the beliefs, and the fears, and the bull crap, and the expectations that have kept you from living your authentic self. Today, y'all, we are joined by the incredible Kena Siu, known to many as the Midlife Butterfly, for a powerful conversation about transformation, self-discovery, and the freedom that comes from releasing old stories so you can fully embrace the woman you were always meant to be.

[00:02:31] If you are ready to stop living by everyone else's rule and start blooming into your most authentic self, then this conversation is for you. Join us on the Wisdom in Bloom podcast and let's talk about it

[00:02:49] Meet Kena Siu

[00:02:49] Kamesha: Welcome to another wonderful episode of the Wisdom in Bloom podcast. The Wisdom in Bloom. I am one of your hosts, Kamesha, [00:03:00] here with the lovely Denise. Hello. And on the Wisdom in Bloom podcast, we talk to midlife women, helping them, helping to support them through this time so that they can face midlife with courage, with grace, and with humor.

[00:03:16] Mm-hmm. Because that's what it's all about. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Right? And we love to talk to women who are also in midlife or are supporting women in midlife- Mm-hmm ... with various things that are going on. And today we have a special guest. Her name is Kena Siu. Mm-hmm. And we are gonna talk to Kena about self-care and getting back to that version of ourselves.

[00:03:40] Okay? But first let me introduce her, because she is quite the woman. Okay. Kena Siu is an identity and embodiment guide, and founder of Midlife Butterfly, a brand and podcast for high-achieving midlife women who are done surviving their [00:04:00] own lives and ready to feel alive again. She helps women who have spent years over-functioning and people-pleasing, I'm sure we can all relate to.

[00:04:11] Yeah, we all been there. Finally- Yes ... stop, yes, finally stop abandoning themselves, care for their nervous system, reconnect with who they truly are, and feel at home in their own skin. And this is what we all want. This is wonderful. So welcome. Welcome, Kena, to the Wisdom in Bloom podcast. Thank you for joining us.

[00:04:30] Yes. Yes. Oh, I'm so-

[00:04:32] Denise: Welcome, welcome, welcome. We're so happy that you are here.

[00:04:36] Kena Siu: Oh, thank you. Thank you, Kamesha, thank you, Denise, for having me in the Wisdom in Bloom. I'm, uh, I know this is gonna be super fun, and I look forward to our conversation and, yeah, to bring some aliveness to- Yeah. Love it ... to this midlife, you know?

[00:04:51] So let's go. to do.

[00:04:54] Kamesha: That's what we wanna do. Yes. So of course, the first question is, 

[00:04:58] How Kena Got Into Embodiment Work

[00:04:58] Kamesha: how did you get involved in this work? How did you- Yeah ... get involved in this embodiment and identity work? Yeah, and I absolutely love the tag midlife butterfly, 'cause we are ever-changing, so I love that. And blooming, yes.

[00:05:11] Blooming. Yes. Thank you. Uh, well,

[00:05:15] Kena Siu: I got into here because I've been doing the inner work. Mm. Basically. I started, you know, I've been always very curious to learn different things. Mm-hmm. And so I started kind of, like, changing my eating habits, and then getting more into what holistic health self-care is. Mm.

[00:05:33] Like, holistic health, better say. You know, body, mind, and soul. Mm-hmm. And from there, like, you know, inner work, like, uh, shadow work, mindset work. Then I was in a school of temple body arts, when is when I connected back more with my body, with my femininity, because I used to be a lot of my masculine. And then recently I also took a certification in neuroepigenetic [00:06:00] breathing.

[00:06:00] Ooh. Yeah, that was, that, that's something else.

[00:06:04] Neuroepigenetic Breathing Explained

[00:06:04] Kamesha: Give us a little bit, give us a little bit more in, into that. What, what is that?

[00:06:07] Kena Siu: Okay. A neuroepigenetic breathing, it's- Hmm ... I would, it's a somatic breathing technique. Mm-hmm. Well, there are different kind of like breathing sessions or we call them meditation sometimes- Mm-hmm

[00:06:20] but it's actually an active meditation, right? Because it's through breath. Mm-hmm. So this one can be with different types of, um, respiration. So it could be like we're breathing in through the nose, exhaling through the mouth, or, uh, inhaling and exhaling through the mouth. Mm-hmm. You know? So it's different techniques of breathing, and then also includes what it is a lot the pelvic floor.

[00:06:45] Mm-hmm. Because basically it's the part of our body that hold us fully. That holds it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So then by then holding the perineum and then bringing the energy to the body, and with the breathing techniques, it's how [00:07:00] we can actually rewire our brain. That's what is called neuroepigenetic because- Mm-hmm

[00:07:05] even epigenetics says that what it means beyond genetics, but at the same time we've been told that, well, if in your family there's cancer, most likely you're going to have cancer. Mm-hmm. Or, you know, things like that. But the thing is, we can shift that because- Yeah ... it depends if, of our environment, of what we eat, what we consume in every way, you know, with our ears, with our eyes, with our smell.

[00:07:31] Everything is- Right, not just food. Mm-hmm ... exactly. So everything is interconnected. So by breathing and then there is, what I love about this technique also that at the end usually includes movement. Mm-hmm. And that's something that we usually don't do, and that's usually, at least in the kind of breathwork that I've done before- Mm-hmm

[00:07:53] they don't really include it. And I love this that my mentor, Sajiva Hurtado, does because [00:08:00] after going through a breathing process- Yeah ... the body needs to recalibrate, right? Mm-hmm. So by doing the movement, then the body is going to fix or adjust whatever is needed- Yeah ... inside the body, alchemizing. And of course, all that has to be with every organ that we have, with all our cells, with our atoms.

[00:08:21] And at the same time, again, it, it includes the three brains that we have. So it's super cool because we can rewire our brain simply, well, simply by doing these kind of techniques of breathing, and it's just so liberating because even though I also do coaching, you know, like the talking to a person, but sometimes some people or us ourselves, we don't know how to express what it is inside of us.

[00:08:46] Yeah. And just by breathing, it's so incredible how we can just release stuff that is being kept in the body that comes from our experience, you know, in- as individuals, but also from the collective, from [00:09:00] our families. Mm-hmm. So it's very, very potent and powerful. So it's almost like a reset. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:09:06] It's like a mi- it's a mi- a breathing and mind kind of reset, right? And then you go into the body, and then also you continue with the dancing, right? Yes. Like a moving, yeah. At the end. At the end. Yeah, so it's, uh, it's all of that, or sometimes it's in between, you know? It's, that's why we have different, uh, yeah, like different meditations.

[00:09:25] Mm-hmm. Yes. So they are ... It's not that they are ... They could be, some of them, more focused in something, in specific, but at the end, again, everything in the body is intertwined, so- Right ... it doesn't matter if something is in my eye. It could be connected also to my knee, right? Because it's the same body. Right.

[00:09:42] Then we have the fascia and all the parts of our body. Everything is connected. Everything. So, mm-hmm. So it doesn't matter what you're doing specifically. It's gonna work for something. And even also when before starting the, these meditations, the idea is to have an intention what you want to work on it.

[00:09:59] [00:10:00] Mm-hmm. But one thing is your intention, and then the other thing is what's going to actually show up over there because w- we never know what, what is it that the body and the soul needs at that very moment.

[00:10:11]

[00:10:12] Denise: I to- totally agree about that. I've heard, um, I have a, a good friend of mine and she always says, "Everything's connected.

[00:10:19] Everything is connected." And I remember I have, from years of military, I have a, a labrum problem, and my labrum, you know, hurts sometimes. And I remember when it was really inflamed and I end up having to go to the orthopedic. But to me, m- it was my hip, the pelvic area, and it was inflamed and it hurt so bad.

[00:10:39] But what I found out is that the labrum goes from my hip all the way down to my ankle. And it's like- Mm ... a band, like a rubber band that connects it from the ankle up. Mm. So you are able to move your knee and move your leg. And so when it's inflamed, you literally are in pain and you can't move. That en- entire side is connected.

[00:10:59] And I would've [00:11:00] never, ever thought that, 'cause I'm thinking the whole time it was my hip or m- you know, my side. And so I, I do agree that, that everything is connected. So I love, I love that concept of the breathing and the reset, and then the moving to just kinda recalibrate your body and, and get into that, that mind frame of resetting everything from head to toe.

[00:11:23] Kena Siu: Yeah. And that's one of the things that we struggle a lot, is that we usually live from the neck to the top instead of the neck from... I have noticed, like, how many women, and I was included in that, we don't move. We are not used to moving. Yeah. Right. Right? Yeah. And unfortunately, that affects our health- Mm

[00:11:45] at any level. Probably not that reflection, not, it's not that reflected now, but eventually. I mean, if we don't move, it's gonna have a consequence in our health. Mm. Because, I mean, women, we live [00:12:00] longer, right? Our longevity, it's, it's longer. But unfortunately, like, what I heard is that, from a specialist, is that, but we live with more sickness for longer time.

[00:12:10] Yeah. So it's like, so what's the point of living longer- Right ... if we're gonna be in pain? And it's not healthy. Right, right, right, right. Exactly. If it's not healthy. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

[00:12:19] The Impact of a Sedentary Life

[00:12:19] Kamesha: That is absolutely true. We definitely, I think at this age I'm starting to feel the impact of sitting. Mm-hmm. Because for a long time- Yeah

[00:12:27] you know, I had a very sedentary job, which a lot of people, I think have, right? Where you're sitting in front of a computer And we don't, we're not taught to take the proper breaks, right? Mm-hmm. True. To, to get up, to walk around, to move, to get something to drink, right? Unless someone has to use the restroom or it's, like, lunchtime- Mm-hmm

[00:12:47] sometimes you can be at a computer for hours. Mm. And I started to experience, like, lower back pain. Mm-hmm. And I remember I would have these back spasms, and it was just kind of just out of no- [00:13:00] I thought it was, like, out of nowhere. Mm-hmm. And then when I went to see the doctor and was talking to the doctor about, you know, the kinda work I do, he told me that it's because of you're sitting, and it's like your body

[00:13:11] Like, the body is very smart, right? So you kinda start training it- It is ... right, how to act and how to respond. And then if you, you know, you're sitting, it gets used to that, and then now you wanna start moving around. It's like, "Wait a second. What are you doing?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So you have to kinda then retrain it to be like, "No, but I'm not sitting for those long periods of time."

[00:13:31] But, you know, it can be, it can be very painful. Mm-hmm. But you're right. You don't see- Yeah ... these impacts until much later on- Later ... like after, yeah. Mm-hmm. After some time- Mm-hmm ... when they've been going on. Mm-hmm. So.

[00:13:42] Denise: Yeah. I know we, we wrote something when we were sending questions to you, Kena. We, I wrote something that said, um, "Self-care for women is often reduced to bubble baths and spa days."

[00:13:53] We kinda forget that self-care is more than ju- just sitting in a bathtub or, or [00:14:00]being at a spa. I'm not saying that- Mm ... that's not a part of it. It is. Mm-hmm. But self-care is all those other things, too, the things that me, myself are guilty of, not moving, not- Mm-hmm ... you know, being, not breathing, not, like, all the other things from the neck down.

[00:14:15] Uh-huh. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Right.

[00:14:18] Kena Siu: And I want to include that that guilt is also, has to be part of your self-care. Ooh. Yeah, because self-care, what I consider basically, it's our habits. It's our daily habits. Mm. So how you eat, when you wake up, you know, if you say, uh, good morning to your partner or if you live with someone before looking at your phone, that's kind of a self-care.

[00:14:41] If you take a few seconds or minutes to be grateful in the morning before getting out of bed, that's also self-care. Yeah. So, or how you, you know, dressing, it- does it feel good in your body? Do you feel good? Like, you know, if you're wearing makeup, are you doing it for yourself or really to show up to, to [00:15:00] everyone else?

[00:15:00] Mm-hmm. Those little things, because our habits is not only actions, it's also thoughts. Mm-hmm. And I think those are the hardest ones. Yeah. Yes. Because the inner critic, it's so, so bad. Like, a- as you just mentioned, Denise, that guilt, guilt. Well, we were not taught to actually move ourselves. Yeah. And after, you know, decades of taking care of others and then work and the family and the parents, I mean, unfortunately, women in midlife and even before, we tend to put everyone first on the list- Yeah

[00:15:36] and we are the last ones. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right? And, and then we say we don't have time. Yes, it's just that you are not prioritizing- Yeah ... that time for yourself.

[00:15:47] Kamesha: Yeah. Yeah. That's absolutely true. And 

[00:15:49] Getting Back to Yourself

[00:15:49] Kamesha: that brings us to what we want to talk about today, which is getting back to ourselves, right? Yeah. Yes, please.

[00:15:58] Getting back to her. Getting back to [00:16:00] her when you actually don't recognize yourself anymore, because maybe you have been spending a lot of time taking care of other people and not focusing on yourself very much at all, or, you know, if at all, you're, you're an afterthought, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then you get to this point where you're like, "I don't even know who I am.

[00:16:19] I don't recognize myself anymore. I don't feel like myself anymore." It's like you've now lost the connection with yourself, right? Mm-hmm. So where, where do we begin to, to get back to her? To her To her Yes. How do we begin to- Yeah ... to connect with ourselves again?

[00:16:37] Kena Siu: I will say the first thing would be to start doing things that you enjoy.

[00:16:43] Mm. You know, like go back- Mm-hmm Mm ... to when, when it was actually you before everyone else came in, no? And you get underground. Like, go back to that time, like, what did you used to like? Mm-hmm. So why not trying those [00:17:00] things? I don't know if you used to exercise before, now you don't do it. Like, okay, what did you en- enjoy at that time?

[00:17:06] Get back to that. Or do you like dancing? I mean, most of the activities that we can do, they are free. They are for free. Mm. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah, self-care, if we put it into a spa and things like that, yeah, that's amazing, but I mean, do we really have the money or do we really have the time? Sometimes just, you know, putting a song that you love and you dancing or you sing it, if that brings you joy, even if it's for two, three minutes, it's gonna shift your state.

[00:17:35] Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. And that's what it is. It's about shifting the state of that monotony or the ordinary things. Mm-hmm. Which I do believe ordinary things are fantastic, but the thing is, are you enjoying those ordinary things that you are doing? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Right? So if, if you are cooking something and you're really enjoying the food that you are [00:18:00] eating or who you are eating with- You know, if you're going for a walk or you're having a conversation, are you really enjoying those conversations and that walk?

[00:18:10] Or do you rather go on your own and listen to a podcast or listen to music? Mm-hmm. So we have different tastes, so it's something, just pick something that, that you enjoy. And also be curious about why not trying something that you have never done. Mm-hmm. If you don't try it, you cannot know if you're gonna like it or not.

[00:18:29] Yeah. Right. Yes. Curiosity makes- Curiosity. Yeah.

[00:18:34] Kamesha: And I like what you said about finding things that you enjoy, because there does come a time when you have been doing so much for other people or living for other people that you might not even remember what you like. Yeah. Yeah. Or you've spent so much time doing something that you don't like that you don't remember what it is you do like.

[00:18:54] Exactly. Does that make sense? Of course. Right? Like, that can, that can totally happen, right? If you are with, if you, maybe [00:19:00] you have a family and your family only likes to eat chicken, right? So you're always cooking chicken, you're always cooking chicken, but you're not really a big chicken eater. You don't really like chicken.

[00:19:09] Mm-hmm. But you do it because this is what your family does. Mm-hmm. But if someone were to say to you, "Would you like to have steak?" You probably would actually like to have steak. Mm-hmm. But you don't ever think about that because you're just doing what everybody else wants you to do. Mm-hmm. Not knowing what it is that brings you joy.

[00:19:26] So I think also taking some time to be aware, too, right? Like, as you're moving throughout your day, like what am I- That was exactly, yes. Right? Like, what am I... Am I even liking this, you know? Am I having a good time with this person? Or am I having a good conversation with this person? Is it somebody I like talking to, or is it just a friend I've had just for forever and we've just always been friends and that's just the way it is, even though I'm bored out of my mind talking to this person, or they hurt my feelings, or they make me upset, or they always agitate me.

[00:19:58] Mm-hmm. But it's just, you [00:20:00] know, kind of what you've, what you've always done, and I think that it, it's really on women at this age to step back and say, "Now is my time for me to figure out what it is- Yeah ... that I actually do enjoy." I used to like dancing so much. You know, I was with my, I was with, uh, my mother-in-law about, maybe it was like a month ago.

[00:20:21] And so we were talking to her and she was kind of reminiscing about when she got married, and she got married very young. I think she was 19 or 20 when she got married. And so she was telling us a story about how she used to dance. She's loved dancing when she was younger. And I thought, I've never seen you dance.

[00:20:38] You know, I've known this family for like 30 years. And I said, "Oh, well, when did you stop dancing?" I was like, "'Cause I don't remember you ever dancing." "Oh, when I married my husband, he did not like me dancing." Mm. That's what she said. He did not like me dancing. He wasn't a dancer. And so she just stopped dancing.

[00:20:55] Oh my God. That was it. Right. Can you imagine? And I said, "Oh my goodness, that is [00:21:00] so terrible that you stopped." She's like, "Oh no, no- That's sad ... it was fine." But I think especially back in that time, right, you just kinda did whatever your husband said to do or not do. Mm-hmm. And you didn't even- Yeah ... think if it was something that you cared about anymore.

[00:21:13] It's like, well, if that's what he says, then I guess it's fine. I don't need to worry about the dancing. Yeah. But it really took me ba- aback because I thought to myself, what do you mean you just stopped because he said he didn't like you doing it?

[00:21:25] Kena Siu: Yeah. And the thing is, she would be able to do it on her own.

[00:21:28] If he, if he didn't want her to dance, I don't know, in front of people, it's okay. Right. But she wouldn't be able to do it on her own. At home by yourself, right. Exactly. Yes. Wow. Yeah.

[00:21:45] Denise: It's like we spend this midlife period unlearning and reconnecting to ourselves. Yes, definitely. And then we find out that we stopped doing things not because we wanted to, not because we made a choice to, but because other people needed us to. Mm-hmm.

[00:21:56] And so we thought that was what we were supposed to do, you [00:22:00] know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And if people do things- And that- ... that goes back to the same thing ... yeah.

[00:22:04] Kena Siu: But you know what? Other people needed us. Mm-hmm. I will say that between quotes because I think that's just the program. Yeah. They make us believe that everyone else has to be before us.

[00:22:15] Mm. Mm-hmm. But if you think about it, when, when we going to travel on a plane, the first thing they told us is that if there's an emergency, put the, the oxygen mask on you first. Mm-hmm. It should be for everything. Yeah. Because how can we just give and give and give- Mm ... if the, if we don't fill up our own cup?

[00:22:35] Yeah. It just doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. So how come is it that we always prioritize everyone else except ourselves? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I think over there is just shifting that paradigm that everyone else has to be first. Yeah. Right. Because they need us. Yeah, but I need myself, too.

[00:22:56] Right. Because if I don't take care of myself truly [00:23:00] and deeply, how am I gonna do it with the other people? Absolutely.

[00:23:04] Kena's Personal Turning Point

[00:23:04] Kamesha: Did that happen for you, Kena? Was there a time when you were realizing, you know, "I'm like, I'm not living for myself anymore." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, "I'm, I'm living for other people." Or maybe there was some event that occurred, you know- Mm-hmm

[00:23:17] in your life where you had to just take a, a step back and start looking at your life- Mm-hmm ... and say, "This is not the life that I want to, to live." Yeah. And then how did you, like, navigate that?

[00:23:28] Kena Siu: Yeah. Well, it was, it was like a series of things- Events ... that happened, yeah. But the, the biggest thing that have me question, even though I was already, you know, doing some work, I was already doing yoga and meditating and stuff, but what happened is that my father transition, like, he passed away, like, suddenly.

[00:23:49] He was five days in the hospital, and then he was gone. Oh. He was not sick, not anything. Mm-hmm. So that was like a wake-up call, you know? Yeah. Sure. [00:24:00] And then from there, I started questioning my life, and I was like, "Okay, like, I've been in a relationship for almost 10 years," but we got kind of like into a plateau- Mm-hmm

[00:24:10] where we were not having any more, like, dreams together or, you know, we're not, like, going out, like, more often to create memories or things like that. And- Mm ... and I was like, "Is this really what I want for another 10 or 20 years?" Wow. Right? So you start questioning that. And then the job that I was on it, like, even though it was really cool, I mean, it was very good salary, I had the opportunity to travel and all that, but I got to the point that I was not growing anymore.

[00:24:40] Mm-hmm. So it was, it got bored for me. Yeah. You know? So again, questioning all that. Also, what I was doing, what I was not doing, my friendships and stuff like that. So A, I literally like left the relationship- Luckily, it was in agreement, you know? Yeah. Like, we, we were always in the, in [00:25:00] the same page. But then, yeah, like, we realized that as a couple we didn't work anymore, you know?

[00:25:06] So it was, like, the grieving of my father, the grieving of this relationship, and then one of my best friends also broke up with me. Mm-hmm. So this within not even two years. It was a lot of stuff going on. Then it was between COVID and the whole thing. Mm. So for me, for me, COVID was a blessing- Mm ... because they sent us home, and since this was actually my second divorce, it was like, okay, the common denominator here is me, right?

[00:25:33] So let's work in me, because- Like I gotta look at myself now. Exactly, because I don't wanna keep repeating the same patterns with other people. Mm-hmm. It just doesn't... So it's when I went, like, deeper into looking into myself and saying, "Okay, what is it there?" Like, what is it that, you know, like noticing the patterns, my behaviors, what I needed to heal, and that really brought me to where I am now and [00:26:00] saying, okay, now I, I found home, which it was a cool part from COVID.

[00:26:04] They sent us home, and I found home, but here within me. Yeah. Yeah. Because now I know that home is not a place, it's a feeling. Mm-hmm. So it doesn't matter where I am now, I am always home. Yeah. So it's super cool.

[00:26:18] Denise: Well, I, I heard you say earlier, too, that you coach, and as we're talking about this unlearning and reconnecting and rediscovering- Yeah

[00:26:28] how do you help women release that guilt and understand that prioritizing themselves is, is not a selfish act, but- Mm-hmm ... a necessary act? You know, how do you get them over that hump? Because we all have felt it, and we all go through the, the point where you're like, well, you know- If I don't do it for them, then it's not- Yeah

[00:26:50] gonna get done or I'll feel guilty for not doing it. And, uh, and the whole time you don't... I don't know if you know that you're neglecting yourself at the time, to be honest with you. [00:27:00]Mm. I don't know if we see that until we are awakened to it. But I don't know if in the process of doing it for so many years that we actually see it as neglecting ourselves, you know?

[00:27:14] Yeah. And so once we get to that aha moment and we, and we wanna set up boundaries, we go through this grieving stage, this guilt, you know? Okay. So how have you helped your clients to kinda move past that or either put in coping strategies and get through that?

[00:27:32] Kena Siu: Yeah. Well, one of the things is, well, what I think, as you mentioned, it really ha- we really have to have that awakening or at least, you know, that knock on the door that's saying, "Hey, something is happening here."

[00:27:45] Mm-hmm. And that's what I think a lot of women, we think we are in crisis, but not. I- it is really an awakening after decades of taking care of other people, there comes a time that is like, "Hey, it's my time now." Mm-hmm. Like, you know, [00:28:00] we get tired, frustrated. We have a lot of resentment and, and a lot of other emotions.

[00:28:06] Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. But I think at least how I do it with my clients is really about questioning, questioning the life because unfortunately, a lot of the things that we do, like including, like people-pleasing or taking care of other first, and it's because our wounds. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Either y- I mean, there are a lot of wounds, but, uh, the main ones is usually we want to be a- accepted, we want to feel loved- You know, we want to belong.

[00:28:38] Right. Uh, and we are afraid of abandonment or rejection. Mm-hmm. So a lot of the coping mechanisms that we have that are part of, part of our identity, it's because we're trying to protect ourselves. Mm-hmm. To, you know, to then to cover those wounds. Like [00:29:00] a simple one is the people pleasing. Like, I think most of us, we are people pleasers.

[00:29:05] Yeah. Right? But why do we do it? I mean, even though we don't like our boss, it's because we want to keep our job, so we're gonna work later. Mm. And we're gonna follow whatever the boss says. Right. Or, you know, my husband is the one who's paying the house that we are living, so I'm gonna agree to everything that he says because he's paying the house.

[00:29:25] Yeah. You know? So then because we want that security, because we want to feel loved- Yeah ... that's why we have these kind of behaviors, and it's, it's a coping mechanism. Yeah. That's what it is. Again, it's about questioning and digging in there, like saying, "Okay, where is this wound coming from?" And why? And why.

[00:29:49] And then of course it's not gonna go away right away, or probably will ne- it will never will, but at least it can kind of fade away little by little. Right, right. [00:30:00] Like, every time you actually put a boundary, every time you take a different decision, every time you speak your truth. Mm-hmm. You know, that's it's, it's about practice.

[00:30:11] Mm-hmm. Because if we've been doing, we've been feeling that guilt for such a long time- Right ... it cannot just vanish like this. Right. Mm-hmm. It has a lot of baggage, if we can put it that way. Yeah. So every time we decide to take a different action, and this is what Kamesha was talking about before, we need awareness.

[00:30:33] Mm-hmm. Because if we don't have that awareness, we cannot choose something different. Mm-hmm. Because we are always choosing, consciously or unconsciously, but we're, we are always choosing. Yeah. But once we have that awareness, then it's up to you to say, "Okay, do I want to say yes or do I want to say no to my boss this time?"

[00:30:51] Right. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. So it's how it's, it's, again, it's practice. Yeah. But it's once you have that [00:31:00] awareness and you know where that wound, wound is coming from, it's like, "Okay, w- I'm coming back to this pattern because of this." So you kind of, like, understand it in a way. So then from there, you start shifting it little by little.

[00:31:14] Sponsor / Recap Break

[00:31:14] Denise: Hey, bloomers. If you're just joining us, we are here with the incredible Kena Siu. She is known as the midlife butterfly. Today, we're exploring the freedom that comes from blooming by unlearning, letting go of old expectations, limiting beliefs, and embracing the woman you were always meant to become.

[00:31:35] Let's get back to the episode.

[00:31:38] Redefining Yourself in Midlife

[00:31:38] Kamesha: Well, I think this is, to me, why, you know, this age is so wonderful because there's so many things that are happening for women at this age that can be a catalyst for the change. Yes. Right? Whether it is we have parents or family, you know, that is getting older and maybe we're taking care of them or maybe they're, you know, passing away, or [00:32:00] maybe we were in a long-term relationship or we were in a marriage and it's not- Mm-hmm

[00:32:03] working out anymore and that's fallen apart, or maybe you've had children and your children have, have moved or, or have left- Mm-hmm ... the home, right? Mm-hmm. So you have all of these kind of like devastating life events that puts you in a place as a woman of, "Well, who am I now and what is it that I, that I do?"

[00:32:23] Like, how, how, how do I identify myself now? Mm-hmm. Especially if you were identifying yourself through all of these other people, right? Mm-hmm. And through all of these other tasks or jobs or work or career or what have you, when those things are taken away, right? Or maybe you are part of, you know, here in where we are, many people have been losing their jobs, right?

[00:32:46] And if you've used your job to define you because you've worked there for 20 years or you've worked there for 30 years and now you're like, "Wait, wait, wait, who, who am I now without this job?" Like- Mm-hmm ... without this title. Yes. And so I think that [00:33:00] that's an opportunity to, to face, to face who you are, but I think some p- some people, some women also find it very, like, fearful, you know?

[00:33:09] Yeah. But I think it's a welcome thing. Like, what do you, what do you say about that? Do you think it's something that women should be fearing at this time? Or is it something that they should be welcoming- Yes ... when their life looks like it's kinda falling apart?

[00:33:23] Kena Siu: Yeah. No, I think, I think it doesn't matter what happens in life, either if we consider it good or bad- Mm-hmm

[00:33:30] it's part of our life experience. And if you notice, I mean, there are stories of someone who got fired and then finally they started their new business. Mm-hmm. Or, you know, the, the universe is always working in our favor. That's, that's how I see it. I love that. Yes. Right? Yes. But at the same time, I, I do understand that it's, like, this fear, you know, because a job, it brings the security, brings the money, we have to pay bills- Mm

[00:33:56] you know, take care of other people and stuff like that, which it makes, [00:34:00] it makes a lot of sense. Mm-hmm. So that's one part, but on the other hand, what I, what I experience in my life itself is the fact that we put our value, our worth in our job. Mm-hmm. And that's why it's so frustrating to say, "I don't have that title anymore."

[00:34:17] Yep. Yeah, but you existed before that title. Yeah, before the title. You know? So now you don't have it, you can still- Mm ... live without that title, but we are so attached to, to that- Mm-hmm ... that we be- we think that we are that. Right. But no, I mean, we are more than that.

[00:34:36] Kamesha: Right. Absolutely. Right. Whatever the title is, whether it's- Yeah

[00:34:40] a job title, like I'm, I'm a lawyer, I'm a doctor, I'm whatever. Mm-hmm. Or it's some kind of relationship title. I'm a mom, you know, I'm a wife, you know, I'm a grandmother. Yes. I'm a aunt, I'm a, you know, this is, I'm a community activist, right? Yeah. Like, you have all of these different titles that we have put upon ourselves or, or let other people put upon [00:35:00] us.

[00:35:00] Put that on there. And, right. Yeah. Put upon us. And maybe those titles were fine at one point, right? Like, maybe you- Yeah ... needed that title. Maybe you wanted to be defined in that way. Mm-hmm. But then once they are removed, now it's up to you to redefine, right? Correct. Correct. Redefine who you are and, like, reconnect- Mm-hmm

[00:35:17] with this new version of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And not be a, right-

[00:35:21] Kena Siu: I, I think one of the main things, or at least that I love focusing with my clients and- Mm-hmm ... with myself, is to recognize that worth, because we are worthy. Just by being born, we are worthy. Mm-hmm. That's it. We, I mean, we didn't come here, we didn't have a checklist when we were born.

[00:35:41] Like, God didn't give us a checklist to follow. He's just like, "You're alive. Here you go," you know? And, and but since we are born, or even before, we have already these expectations from people, society, culture, you know, or family. Mm-hmm. And [00:36:00] that's what little by little, you know, kind of like if we are this beautiful, shiny ball here with the expectations of everyone, that worthiness, you know, fades away.

[00:36:12] You cannot see it shining anymore. Mm. So I, I do believe, and with the work that I've done too, is it's about removing those layers. As you said, like, okay, my father, I don't ... Let's say, like, example, wanted a boy, and I am a girl. So imagine, you know, the kind of heaviness that that could be, let's say, in a woman who is actually suffering for that.

[00:36:35] Mm. But then it's like, okay, but you really need to bring that worthiness of saying, "Yeah, but I'm a woman and I honor it." And also, yeah, all those expectations that most of them, they are very subtle. They are not told. Mm. Right? But they are very, very subtle. Like, "Ah, yes, you need to bring an good grace- grades from school so I can love you," or, "You can gain [00:37:00] this."

[00:37:00] Mm-hmm. You know? Those are not told, but in a word, in a way, it's telling you, like, if you don't bring good grades from school, you are not worthy. Yeah. Right. Worthy. Right. And that's just a simple example, but I mean, it's, there's a huge long list. Mm-hmm. So the more we can come back and understand that we are worthy and work on whatever it is that we believe make us believe that we are not, I think that's the key to really come back to her.

[00:37:33] Denise: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Earlier in the, in the interview, Kena, you said that a friend broke up with you. I've been through that where, I've been through that a couple times where a dear friend decided that they did not want to be my friend anymore because of X, Y, and Z. I found myself re-evaluating me as a friend.

[00:37:55] I found myself in a really tough spot thinking, "What [00:38:00] did I do?" You know, "Why me?" Mm-hmm. You know, d- was I more of a friend to her than she was to me? Mm. How did you, how did you react to that? And I, I think you said it was during COVID. Mm. So it was also on the cusp of you doing the inner work that you were doing- Yeah

[00:38:16] for yourself. Mm-hmm. How did you react to that? Did you blame yourself, and how did you kinda get over the hump? Because losing good friends sometimes is like a grieving process. So- Oh, yes. A heart- Yeah, of course ... a heartbreak.

[00:38:30] Kena Siu: It, yeah, it is a heartbreak, literally. Exactly. Well, how did I react? Well, the very first thing, because it was through an email, a very long email.

[00:38:39] What? Mm. Yeah. An email. An email, because she was away visiting her mom. Mm-hmm. So yeah, so she decided to do that on an email. So I was just- It's awful. Well, yeah. I was just in tears, to tell you the truth. It was like- Yeah ... I, I didn't expect it. Mm-hmm. It was very, very unexpected. Yeah. So she told me [00:39:00] a lot of things and what was her point of view.

[00:39:02] Mm-hmm. You know, what was her perspective. And, and then, uh, so I cried a lot, of course, but then I, uh, when I took the time to reread the email, I think probably was better because it helped me to really, like, see what was she was saying, you know? Mm-hmm. What she meant. And then, well, first of all, I realized that it was her perspective, her perspective, because one of the things that she was saying is that I became toxic.

[00:39:27] Mm. And I was like, "Hmm, interesting." I was like, I'm doing a lot of this inner work, and she's telling me I'm toxic. Mm-hmm. So I was like- Right. Which is the opposite- Okay ... of what, which is the opposite of the work you're doing. Usually, right? Right. But it's just the fact that she was not doing any kind of inner work.

[00:39:47] Right. Right? So she saw it like that. My change and probably, I don't know, I was being more joyful, and she was also divorced, and I was separated at that time, and [00:40:00] I know she didn't agree with a lot of things- Mm-hmm ... that I was doing with my separation. Mm-hmm. So I don't know if that triggered her. I don't know because I never talked to her afterwards.

[00:40:10] But it, I really took the time to say, "Okay, she's saying these points-" Mm-hmm ... and I'm like, it's, it's her perspective. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm not that person, and it's okay. If she doesn't want to be my friend anymore, it's okay. It's her choice. I'm not gonna force anyone to be with me. But you had to get to that- You know?

[00:40:30] You had to get to that it's okay point, though. Oh, yeah, of course. I, I did grieve her, so that's what I'm telling you that, you know? Like, it was like three grieving, you know, of my best, like my closest people that I needed to go through, through that- Hmm ... process. So yeah.

[00:40:49] The Midlife Butterfly Metaphor

[00:40:49] Kamesha: It reminds me too of, I keep looking at your, your word.

[00:40:52] It says butter- midlife butterfly. Mm-hmm. Midlife butterfly. Yeah. And you, you know, when you are in these places of, of growth- [00:41:00] And learning, you are going to shed some, some things, right? Like- Yes ... I, I feel like though people don't think it's gonna be people, right? Mm-hmm. They don't usually think- That's true.

[00:41:10] It's gonna be people, right? Very true. They think it's only- Yeah ... gonna be, right, only gonna be the things that they wanna get rid of, right? Mm-hmm. So it's like, That's so true. Right? Like, "Oh, I'm in this growth stage, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, doing me," whatever, right? And so the only things that's gonna fall away are the things that you don't think you need.

[00:41:28] You know, maybe you wanna lose a little weight or fat or something- Mm-hmm ... or like you wanna be healthy. Oh, you're not gonna drink or whatever. You don't realize how your change is gonna impact the people in your life. Yes. That's so true. Unless you're thinking, "Oh, once they see how wonderful, you know, I'm doing on this diet, they're gonna wanna join me," kind of thing, right?

[00:41:48] Mm-hmm. You don't realize that- That's so true. ... many times, right, people are not gonna be with you- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... because you are moving in a, in a, to a new level, right? And you're almost kind of leaving them [00:42:00] behind in some ways. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you want-

[00:42:02] Denise: In, in their eyes you're leaving them behind. Yeah. Because- Well, maybe even in yours.

[00:42:06] Kamesha: You might be feeling like I- F- so for a, I'm just, I was just listening to Kena's example where the friend is now calling her toxic, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, what are you talking about? I'm to- Like, I, I am here doing the work. I'm, you know, living my life. I'm trying to find, you know, work on myself. I'm exploring all of these new things.

[00:42:25] Mm-hmm. And toxic is not what I see myself as right now, right? Mm-hmm. But perhaps that was now what you have started to see this other person as, who you never thought you were gonna see as a toxic person, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. But when we are shifting and, like, changing, like, we do release some things. Like, some things- Yeah

[00:42:48] have to, like, release. Like, they can't go with us 'cause they'll just hold us back, right? Correct. Yeah. From where it is that, that we are going. Yeah. So yes, I mean, maybe at the time you don't see it, but I [00:43:00] don't know. I do think sometimes we do feel things. Mm-hmm. Like, we might not know 100%, like, oh, I don't want this person in my life.

[00:43:06] But you know it's kinda coming. But you know it's something. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You know it's something there. Like- Mm ... there was that time that blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or she did say this once, but I just, like, blew it off. You know what I'm saying? Like- Yeah, exactly ... looking back, lots of times it's when we look back.

[00:43:23] Yeah. We might look back and say, "Oh yeah, well maybe she, you know, wasn't always the greatest per-" I'm just using this per- I'm just- Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. But, or this relationship or this marriage or whatever it is, right? Or this job. It wasn't as great as I thought that it was- Mm ... at that time. But because- Yeah

[00:43:39] that's where you were at the time, that's how you saw it. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah, exactly. So we, you know, learn better.

[00:43:45] Denise: Well, you know, Kamesha, back- back-tracking to when you said you keep looking at that word midlife butterfly. I've, I follow this, this guy, and he's always giving, like, these really, really amazing nuggets, just [00:44:00] some, some wisdom and, and insights.

[00:44:02] And he talked about the transformation of a butterfly and how when we think of it, oh, the butterfly's a caterpillar, and then it goes into this ca- cocoon. Cocoon. Mm-hmm. And then it comes out, it comes out to this big, beautiful, gorgeous butterfly. But it's in the cocoon where the pain happens because he was breaking it down and he was saying that most people don't know.

[00:44:24] They think in the cocoon they're shedding and they're turning and they're, you know, getting the... But they actually liquefy. Dying. They die and they liquefy, and the enzymes within the cocoon, cocoon helps them to break down. It is one of the most painful things to come out on the other side as beautiful.

[00:44:48] So just thinking about that transformation and everyone is in this and we're evolving and we loving it, but in order to do that, it is one of the most excruciating, painful things- Yes ... that that [00:45:00] animal, that insect has to do in order to become this butterfly. So, and, and it, and it's, and it, it involves shedding.

[00:45:08] Like Kamesha said, it involving shedding people. We don't think of people, but it also involves shedding you. Yeah. The person you once was, like from head to toe, is shedding you, you know? And- Yeah ... and we don't look at it as that. We lo- sometimes we look at as things like, you know, I'm not go- I'm gonna release this job.

[00:45:28] I'm go- I'm gonna release, you know, this, this, this fatty food. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, all these things. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. We don't think about people and ourselves as being the thing that we need to let go of in order to- Yeah ... be better on the other side.

[00:45:47] Kena Siu: Exactly. You know? And you know what?

[00:45:50] A lot of people they, they say that it's like, "Oh, you need your new version." Yeah, I mean- Mm-hmm ... it's, yeah, it's a different version Mm-hmm. But instead of, I think of [00:46:00]reinventing ourselves, I, I really believe that what we are doing is just, it's remembering who we really are. Mm-hmm. Because with all the programs, with all the conditions, conditioning that we've been living through, every time we kind of, you know, remove those peels from the, from the onion- Mm-hmm

[00:46:18] it's, it's really how we can find ourselves more and more and more. Mm-hmm. And I want to come back to what you said, Denise, because I think it's something that we don't do. We usually grieve other people. Mm-hmm. That's, that's true. But we don't take the time to grieve ourselves. Mm-hmm. Yes. And I, that's some of the things that I recommend- Mm-hmm.

[00:46:42] Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... the m- because if we don't do it, if we don't do it, I think it's why the guilt comes, the shame comes. Because it's like, yeah, but they want me to be this way because they are used to that version. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but you're not that version anymore, so you [00:47:00] need to release her with all the gratitude that it brought you here, and also with all the compassion because you need, we need a lot of that.

[00:47:09] We have it for others, but not for ourselves. And yeah, to really take the time to say, "Yeah, I'm not her anymore." Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I am this other her anymore, and I keep remembering who I am and honoring that.

[00:47:24] Denise: Yeah. Mm. And with the butterfly, no version comes out. An absolute new species comes out. Yes.

[00:47:31] Yes. A new insect.

[00:47:33] There is not a version of something. There is no recognizable... You can't look at that butterfly and say, "Oh, I remember that butterfly. It was that caterpillar that I saw yesterday." You know what I mean? Yeah, that's so true. You, you can't be, "Oh, I remember her. You, red stripes. I remember seeing it." No, it is an in- completely new species, like insect or, um- Mm-hmm

[00:47:57] so sometimes it's not even the new version that we [00:48:00] need to aspire. Sometimes we need to leave the old person, really leave it, and really transition into something completely new. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Completely different. Mm-hmm. Completely bona fide and, and, and I don't wanna use the word unbothered, but I wanna use, I wanna say the person that doesn't allow people to need us so much that we doesn't take care of ourselves, you know?

[00:48:24] Kamesha: Y'all reminded me- Mm-hmm ... of a quote. There was some quote that I heard about... Oh, I can't remember who it was. But it was something about, like, dying to yourself. Mm-hmm. Does that sound familiar to anyone? So you really- Love it ... it's almost like a death. Mm-hmm. It really is kinda like what you were saying about- Yeah

[00:48:38] the caterpillar. Like, you have to die. Like, the old version of you has to die. Like, you kill it. Mm-hmm. You kill her- Mm-hmm ... and lots of the things that made her who she was, and some of those things are people, right? Mm-hmm. And some of those things are the circumstances- Mm-hmm ... and the situations that you were in, and it will make other people very uncomfortable because- Yes.

[00:48:58] Mm-hmm ... you are getting rid of [00:49:00] them, and you're killing them in your life, right? Yeah. And then they look at you like, "Oh, she changed. Oh, she thinks she's this." Mm-hmm. "Oh, she thinks she's that." Mm-hmm. Well, that might be true, but it's because I, I needed to rele- I had to let go of all these things. Like, I had to die to myself- Mm-hmm

[00:49:17] which would include la- losing some of these people. But it's a very hard thing to do. I mean, it's not- Very. It is ... it's not- Very ... an easy thing to do. Some people never get to do it. Some people- Yeah ... it takes them a lifetime, you know- Yeah ... what I mean? To do it. Others, they might just- Some of them take it to their 60.

[00:49:33] Yeah, or they never do it. They just decide- Yeah, there's people who are not ready ... I don't want to. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They just decide- Mm-hmm ... you know, I don't want to, and that's why-

[00:49:40] Denise: Or they think they shouldn't. They think they shouldn't. You know, that's a big one, too. Like, like if- Well, are they afraid? Yeah, not only are they afraid, but it's like if it, well, if I do that, that's, that's being selfish.

[00:49:52] If I do that- Mm-hmm ... if I don't continue... You understand what I'm saying? There's cer- Mm-hmm ... certain people that they shouldn't. And, and the people that fall to the [00:50:00] wayside in a way, I think that they remove themselves from us because they can't access that old version of us. Mm-hmm. You know? And they don't wanna accept the newer and better person that we've become because that newer and better person is not accessible to everything that they need.

[00:50:20] So- Right ... it's all about them at that point. They don't care that we've become this butterfly. Right. Because in their mind, I can't use you as a butterfly. I can only use you as a caterpillar. So that butterfly- ... that butterfly is no use for me. I don't need that butterfly.

[00:50:36] Kena Siu: Yeah. You know? That, that's so true, and that's, I believe that's what a lot of these friendships, they, they fade away because it's, you're not convenient for them anymore.

[00:50:45] That's right. That's right. Or also the fact that you grow. Mm-hmm. It's, it's like saying, "Oh, I'm, I've, you know, I've, I'm left behind." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. "And I don't wanna do this, so you go. Ciao." You know?[00:51:00]

[00:51:01] Understanding Embodiment

[00:51:01] Kamesha: That's exactly true. Yeah. So I wanna switch a little bit. I mean, we've been having such a great conversation here, but I know that part of your work is in embodiment, right?

[00:51:10] Mm-hmm. Yes. And, and you don't hear that term a lot when you're talking about self-care or, or coaching- Mm-hmm ... embodiment. So I wanted to ask you a little bit about what, what does that, what does that look like? Like, and how is that different from some of the other strategies, you know, that, that people are- Mm-hmm

[00:51:28] u- women are using?

[00:51:29] Kena Siu: Okay. Embodiment, the way I see it and the way I feel it, it's when I really integrate the knowledge that I have. Mm. Ah. So it's really when that transformation happens. Mm-hmm. Because we, I mean, a lot of women, and probably you two as well, you know, we listen to a lot of podcasts, we read books, we have been with coaches and mentors and, and also you may know that, yes, you are worthy by birth, but then you don't [00:52:00] believe it, or you know you need to set up boundaries, but you don't do it.

[00:52:03] Mm. So we do have all that information out there, or we have it here. But if we don't really practice it, if we don't settle it in the body itself, and I say in the body because it's with the actions, it's with the practice that we can really then transform ourselves into what we are learning and the wisdom and the knowledge that we have in our minds.

[00:52:29] Kamesha: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, I see that. That makes, that makes so much sense because as you said, lots of times we are just, like, in our head about things. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, thinking about it or we might be think- you know, journaling about it or talking to someone about it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we know what it is that we need to be doing, but we are not- But we don't do it moving and taking those, like, actions, you know? Mm-hmm. Like physically doing those things. Absolutely. Yeah. And right, and if you're not truly embodying that, that change, then have you really made [00:53:00] it? Right. Mm-hmm. Have you, have you even made the change?

[00:53:01] Kena Siu: Yeah. And the thing is the body knows because I don't know if you have heard this, but they said, like, the, the conscious mind, well- Mm-hmm

[00:53:10] it's really, you know, the mind. But the subconscious mind is the body because that's the one who's keeping track of everything. Mm-hmm. Yes. Right? I like that. So if there's a, a, a situation where I don't feel safe, the body's going to react right away. Yeah. You know? It can contract and, and then I know then, "Oh, I'm going to please this person because I'm not feeling safe, because if I don't do what they are telling me- Mm-hmm

[00:53:37] then there's gonna have a consequence for that," right? So the first one who knows is the body. Mm-hmm. So the thing is, okay, you're feeling that contraction. Mm-hmm. What are you gonna do about it? Are you going to take a pause and then show, yeah, choose something different from the default that you are, let's say, saying yes to this person all the time?

[00:53:59] Mm-hmm. [00:54:00] Are you gonna just pause a bit and say, "You know what? Let me think about it." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or it, again, it's about practice. Probably first time you're gonna say, "Yes," right away. Probably the other time you're gonna say, "Let me think about it." Right. Probably the third time you're gonna say, "You know what?

[00:54:16] I don't want to do this anymore," for whatever reason. Yes. So then it's practice because the more you practice, then you're gonna be like, okay, yeah. And the less construction the, the body's gonna feel every time that person comes and ask you for something that you know you don't want to do.

[00:54:34] Denise: Mm-hmm. Right.

[00:54:35] And your, your body is like an antenna, man. And we- Yes ... ignore it a lot, but I swear, like, my husband will say my, my, his spidey senses are tingling, you know? Mm. Because your body is like an antenna. You know that something is not quite right, but sometimes we don't listen, but it's there. Yeah. It really is there.

[00:54:54] It is there. You know? Mm-hmm. Hmm.

[00:54:56] Kena Siu: And it's coming back to what I said at the beginning, that we live from the [00:55:00] neck up. Mm. We are so much in our minds- The neck up ... that we think that we are our thoughts. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But we are not our thoughts. Mm-hmm. Because let's say, just as an example now, if you think yourself that you are the observer, what I like playing is, like, thinking that there, you know, there's- Mm-hmm

[00:55:19] here an observer, an eye, or a little Kena in here. Right. If I see myself like that, then I can s- oh, I'm thinking about this. I'm s- I'm talking this now. Yeah. But I'm just the observer. Mm-hmm. So that's why awareness is what I consider is just being the observer. And so then you realize you are the observer.

[00:55:41] You are not your mind. Yeah. Right. And the more we, we do that and kind of what would be, like, unlocked- Mm-hmm ... that, you know, that's- Mm ... the, that belief that we are our mind- Yeah ... is gonna start, you know, like, liberating and then connecting ourselves more with our body. [00:56:00] Right. Because that 

[00:56:01] intuition that you're talking about, Denise, is always there.

[00:56:05] Mm-hmm. It's just the fact that we are too much in our mind, that we don't listen. We don't listen to our body, and we don't listen either to that voice that is the soul, that is coming from the divine, because we are part of the divine.

[00:56:19] But the more we are into our minds, the less we're gonna be able to listen to thy voice that is always there

[00:56:25] Kamesha: Yeah Wow. You have brought us to a, a s- a spiritual, uh- ... like a spiritual circle. I hope it doesn't go over some, you know, some people's heads, which it might. But I, I, I mean, I understand what you're saying about us- Mm-hmm ... being the observer of- Mm-hmm ... you know, who we are. They might be like, "Who- Who we are ... who, who, who- Yeah

[00:56:45] who's observing?" You know? Like, "I'm not observing anybody. I am me." You know what I mean? I mean, oh, but some- you're thinking the thought, like you have to obs- you're observing the thoughts that you're thinking. But some people aren't even, you know- Mm-hmm ... even in that, in that space yet. But there, that, [00:57:00] there it goes to your evolution, right?

[00:57:01] To- That's it ... where you, where you are in, in your, in your journey and all. I have- Well, this is, this has been great. Did you have one, something else you wanted to ask us?

[00:57:10] Listening to Your Inner Voice

[00:57:10] Denise: Yeah. Well, I have two more questions to, before- Go ahead. ... before I wrap. The first question, uh, Kena, is for the woman, uh, who's listening right now, for our midlife bloomers who is intently trying her best to figure it out, and she feels like she's disappeared somewhere along the way, what would you say to remind her that she's in there, she is in there, she just needs to, you know, come to terms with taking care of her?

[00:57:38] What would you say to that, to that listener, to that person?

[00:57:41] Kena Siu: I would tell them to really take a few minutes of stillness to listen to her voice, because she is there. Yeah. And she knows what she wants. She knows what she deserves. But if we don't take that time for stillness, we're never gonna hear it.

[00:57:59] You gotta be [00:58:00] still.

[00:58:00] Denise: That's really funny. I, I text my oldest daughter today. She had to make a phone call today, and I text her and I said, "Before you make that phone call, be still." Mm-hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Be still. Be quiet. Be still, you know? Yeah.

[00:58:14] Kena Siu: And- And you can even ask her, you know what I do sometimes? "What do you want to experience today?"

[00:58:19] Mm-hmm. I ask her, like, "What do you want to experience?" And you're gonna hear the little voice. Sorry?

[00:58:26] Denise: I said, Kamesha says that a lot, "What kind of day am I gonna have today?" Yeah. "Is it gonna be an amazing day?" Like she, she manifests what that experience is gonna be for that day. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:58:36] Kena Siu: And I want to add this, that to recognize that voice is like a whisper.

[00:58:41] It's very direct, because it can say no, too. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But it's like a whisper. Mm-hmm. Contrary to the ego voice, that's very sharp and very judgmental. Mm-hmm. So it's the one that is telling y- is gonna tell you, "Don't do that," or it's the one who's gonna guide you to [00:59:00]feel the guilt, to feel shame. That's the voice of the ego, because it wants to protect.

[00:59:05] That's the way the ego works, but the voice of the soul, of the intuition is very, very subtle. Mm-hmm. That's why stillness is the only place that I think you can actually hear it if you're not used to that voice yet. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because the more work that you can do- The more the voice of the ego is gonna start like, you know, being quieter and then the other voice is gonna start getting louder Mm-hmm.

[00:59:32] Kamesha: And I can think it's also in a feeling as well. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I know sometimes we can't, like, hear it, you know what I mean? Yeah. But, uh, you can feel it if- Definitely ... but you have to be, you have to be paying attention, right? Yes. As, as we keep saying, you have to be paying attention. So last week, my mom, she was

[00:59:52] She called me and she wanted me to do something. And of course at first, this is my mom, maybe my body was like, eh, you know, I didn't wanna do what she [01:00:00] wanted me to do. I was like, "Ah." Right? But... And I was like, "Uh, okay, okay, okay. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it." But something im- something told me to just, like, wait, right?

[01:00:13] Mm-hmm. So at first I had to kinda let go of the, you know, it was something that I was being- Mm-hmm ... asked to do or more being told to do. You know, your parents tell you to do stuff and you're like, "Why are you still telling me stuff to do?" Yeah. So I had to kind of move away from, "Okay, you're not a kid.

[01:00:27] She's not telling you what to do. This is what she wants you to do." Mm-hmm. "But why don't you wanna do it?" You know? Mm. Mm-hmm. And it was... And as I sat with it, as you say, like, sit in stillness, something was saying, "Y- you can't do it. You just can't do it right now." Mm-hmm. "What she's asking you to do, you just can't do it."

[01:00:44] And so, like, a week passed, and then she called me back later at, at some point, like a week or so, and she's like, "Oh, you know that thing I told you to do? I don't want you to do it now." Really? What did she say? Yes. She said, "I don't want you to do it now. I kn- I know I said, you know, you [01:01:00] should do this or...

[01:01:01] But you, uh, don't do it." And I was, I was... And it's one of those moments too where I just felt so, like, proud that I listened to myself- Yeah ... that I took that in, like you said. I, I didn't, like, react to the, "Oh, she's..." It's like, no, there's something here. Like, sit with it. Mm-hmm. No, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do it.

[01:01:21] Mm. Yeah. And whereas, you know, in, at past times, you know, my mom tells me to do something, I just do it. Like, you know, whether I wanna do it or whatever because I don't wanna, you know, get, uh, upset her. I don't wanna upset myself. I don't wanna str- Yeah ... you know, all the things that we talked about. Yeah. But it really made me just so proud to, like, tap into- Mm-hmm.

[01:01:41] Mm-hmm ... that feeling, right? Mm-hmm. Or voice, like, however it presents itself to you. Yes. That's true. Uh-huh. And then, like, appreciate that I actually can trust myself, right? Like, I can- We can ... trust myself even when it feels- That's the bigger part. I can trust, you can trust yourself ... even when it feels uncomfortable, right?

[01:01:57] Like, even when- Mm-hmm ... it feels uncomfortable, even when it feels [01:02:00]unfamiliar, even when you're like, "She's gonna be mad," you know? Mm. You're like, "No, but I can still, like, trust myself," because we ultimately are responsible for ourselves before any, you know, anybody, anybody else. Exactly. Mm-hmm. But I, I just, I love what, what you just said there.

[01:02:15] We have got to be listening for the whisper or feeling, like, that- Yes ... that, that- Or an impulse ... feeling that's just like- You know? Like- Yeah ... why I'm moving you in a direction- And it's, and like you said, it's not like a, it's not a harsh thing. It's not like a- No ... it's, it's, it's very gentle. Very subtle. Yeah.

[01:02:34] Kena Siu: Yeah. 'Cause the thing, we, we're always guided. We are always guided. Either if you want to call it God, universe, source, it doesn't matter what name you want to give it, we're always guided. Mm-hmm. So it's about having that openness to- Yeah ... then listen. As you said, Kamesha, it can come in a thought, in a feeling, in an impulse.

[01:02:57] Yeah. We don't know. But then it's having [01:03:00] that trust. Yes. And, and that voice also, as you said, yeah, it's coming from the divine, but at the same time it's because we are connected.

[01:03:07] Denise: Connected, because everything is connected. Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:09] Advice to Her Younger Self

[01:03:09] Denise: My last question, so our last question, Kena- Kena, is we're in the season of graduation right now.

[01:03:15] All these beautiful kids are graduating, 17, 18, some 19, you know, right now. Or from college, they could be in their 20s now. Or, you know, or, or 21, 22. It just depends. But I'm, I'm saying high school right now 'cause my question kinda falls there. But, and so, so many kids are, are graduating right now and, and we've seen some beautiful ceremonies and graduation, graduation party.

[01:03:40] My granddaughter graduated. And I, I find myself watching her and looking at her and thinking of me and who I was at 17 graduating and thinking, "Wow, if I knew at 17 what I know now, how, you know, the trajectory, tra- trajectory of my life, I think, you know, would have been [01:04:00] on a different path and a different journey."

[01:04:02] I, I say this to you to say, if you could go back to your 17-year-old- Mm-hmm ... self as you're getting prepared to graduate and, and step into that next adventure, if you could- Yeah ... go back and whisper something to that young lady, what would it be?

[01:04:18] Kena Siu: Hm. Hmm. Wow. I know, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think it would it be, you are worthy.

[01:04:27] Denise: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. You are. Oh. Yeah. I say that to her, my granddaughter. I tell her all the time, "You are worthy. Don't let no one tell you you're not. You deserve the world. You're worthy." I think we as women, our self-esteem and ego get just battered. Yeah. We just get battered. And if it's not from the environment around us, sometime it's within our own family, it's in social media.

[01:04:52] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's, it's so much around us, and if, if we don't, do like Kenisha say, trust ourselves with [01:05:00] ourselves- Mm-hmm ... you know, we'll forget that we are worthy. You know? Yeah. We are worthy. I love that. Yeah. Love it.

[01:05:07] Kena Siu: Yeah. It doesn't matter how we look like- Yeah ... what size we are, what color of eyes, hair, it doesn't matter.

[01:05:15] This is just the avatar. We are worthy- Right ... just by being here.

[01:05:20] Kamesha: Yeah. Right. Just, just the simple fact that we exist makes us- Exactly ... yeah, makes us worthy- Mm-hmm ... of, of being here, and of all the good things, right? Of all the good things that we, we desire in life. Mm-hmm.

[01:05:30] Denise: And it's such a blessing to have people around you who love you, who witness your worthiness.

[01:05:35] They witness your existence. They witness your efforts. They witness your success, what you deem as success, not what the world deems as success. Mm-hmm. They witness it. I'm, I'm learning so much being a podcaster and talking to people, learning through therapy. This has been such a great groundbreaking thing for me.

[01:05:56] So I, I just I'm very grateful, Kena, [01:06:00] that you decided to come to the Wisdom in Bloom and, and have this conversation with us, because we are worthy, so thank you so much. Thank you. Mm. Thank you.

[01:06:09] Kamesha: We appreciate you. Yeah. 

[01:06:09] Closing Thoughts & Where to Find Kena

[01:06:09] Kamesha: So as we, as we, uh, wind down our conversation, are there any last words? And of course, tell us, you know, how people can get in contact with you, where they can find you, and all of the wonderful work that you're putting out into the world.

[01:06:26] Kena Siu: Hmm. Thank you. To the beautiful, amazing, and extraordinary midlife women who are listening here, yeah, know that you are worthy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because when you really embody that, your life is going to shift at any level. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The decisions you make, your relationships, the quality of your life. So doing the inner work, it's worthy of doing- Yes

[01:06:55] because of coming to your own sense of worthiness. [01:07:00] Mm-hmm. Right. And it's challenging, yeah. Yeah. But it's fun at the same time. It's amazing how much you can actually dig in to remember who you truly are. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's, it's a remembrance. Mm-hmm. That's what it is. Yeah. And well, this beautiful audience, well, you can find me at Midlife Butterfly in Instagram, and my podcast is also Midlife Butterfly.

[01:07:27] And yeah, you can, you can find me in those places. And I'm going to be sharing with you ladies a little freebie for your audience. It's called Coming Home. Hmm. And so it's a private podcast with a lot of, a few episodes that is actually taking you to process a lot of things that we talk about here. Mm.

[01:07:49] Self-grief, setting boundaries, working, you know, in the worthiness, all those little parts that every time we practice them, we remember a little bit more of who we [01:08:00] really are. Yeah. Ah. We like that. And that's the way to come home here- Yeah ... inside, in the heart, in this body.

[01:08:07] Kamesha: I love that. Beautiful. Love that.

[01:08:09] I love the title too, of it. Coming Home, right? Coming Home. Mm-hmm. That is wonderful. Wow. Well, thank you, Kena Siu, for, for joining us today on the Wisdom in Bloom podcast. This has been just such a wonderful and worthy conversation, and we hope- Yes ... that you bloomers are able to get something out of this conversation, that it reminded you a little bit more of who, who you are, and, and you could relate to some of the, the things that Kena shared and that we shared about our, our path and journey, you know, to like where, where we are now, 'cause we're all- Mm-hmm

[01:08:44] we're all just trying to figure it out, you know?

[01:08:50] We're all just trying to figure it out.

[01:08:51] Kena Siu: Exactly. Yes, yes. One moment at a time. Thank you so much for your invitation, Kamesha and Denise. I really appreciate this time. It was just such a beautiful conversation. I really [01:09:00] appreciate you ladies. You're very welcome. We loved it as well. Loved it.

[01:09:02]

[01:09:06] Kena Siu: And if what we just talk about in this episode is landing for you, if you recognize yourself in any of these, I want to tell you about something I created specifically for you. Coming Home is a private free podcast with practices to release what no longer serves you to embody the woman you are remembering to be.

[01:09:29] The details are in the show notes. And as usual, thank you so much for listening. Sending you lots of love, and take care.

[01:09:39]